Loved. To. Death.

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yaktoleft13
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by yaktoleft13 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:31 pm

Scott P wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:00 pm
yaktoleft13 wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:47 pm
Does seeing someone on a summit a mile away count as seeing someone?
Yes. Why wouldn't it? Take a few words out of your sentence and it reads: Does seeing someone...... count as seeing someone?
At the very least, it doesn't affect the feeling of solitude.
Of course it does.

The definition of solitude is as follows:

1 : the quality or state of being alone and remote from society

Seeing other people means you aren't completely alone nor remote from society.

There are hundreds of peaks in and around Colorado where you can be completely alone and not see anyone on the approaches or from a distance. The Gore Range isn't in one of those areas, at least not on summer weekends. It's just too popular and well known to do that. It's a good place to be too.

I'm willing to bet that people who actually do visit the more remote summits would agree.
Let me rephrase: it shouldn't affect the feeling of solitude. If it does, that's a you problem
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Scott P
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by Scott P » Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:37 pm

yaktoleft13 wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:31 pm
Let me rephrase: it shouldn't affect the feeling of solitude. If it does, that's a you problem
I am not upset by seeing others; I'm just saying that it doesn't qualify as solitude.

Maybe you have just never been anywhere remote?

When I want to see other people and visit crowded well known areas, I go to places like the Gore Range. It doesn't bother me.

When I want solitude, I'll visit somewhere little known and remote. I'll try and find a route up a peak such as this:

https://listsofjohn.com/peak/24021

Of course that peak really is on my list. If anyone wants to come with me and help find a route up it, you are of course invited.

It's just a random example of hundreds of such peaks. Anyone who wants to come with me on such peaks is invited. Just be warned that I'm slow, fat, and am getting old. I kind of suck at technical climbing too. My only ace in the hole is that I have been exploring remote areas for decades and know a lot of cool routes into those areas.

Instead of trying to convince me whether or not I found solitude in the Gore Range, how about coming with me to an area far more remote? Spectacular places where you aren't going to see people on the approaches, peaks, or from the peaks. I can promise that after visiting such areas there is a good chance that you won't think of the Gore Range as remote or having true solitude (at least on summer weekends) anymore. ;) Come try a peak with me such as the one in the link, if you (I'm speaking to everyone here) don't mind going with a slow aging middle age guy and see if you agree.
I'm slow and fat. Unfortunately, those are my good qualities.
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by Jorts » Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:04 pm

It’s a dumb conversation. Great. You know solitude better than all of us who have ever parked next to another vehicle along a highway before hiking into the middle of nowhere. Cool. You win the oneupmanship award for solitude.
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by Dobsons » Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:14 pm

This thread has taken an interesting turn... when I was on Jagged this last summer I hadn't seen anyone for a day and a half since leaving needleton area including summits of knife point, jagged and peak six. It felt pretty much like solitude but then that was ruined when I saw an airplane fly by at 30,000 feet of elevation with 200 souls in it. No solitude to be had anywhere these days...

I'm with Jorts, whom I have been with on several of my Gore outings. Once I leave a trail in the Gore I rarely see anyone in fact I have never been close enough to another person off trail in the Gore to even say hi. We were on Y last year on a beautiful fall afternoon and I recall the Y summit register having only a handful of log entries in the past 10 years. At the same time I could look across summit county to Greys and Torreys and realize there were probably 1000 people on those trails at that same moment. Yes there are some very rarely visited areas in Colorado. Many 7000 foot peaks don't get visited every year I am sure. In terms of close to Denver, amazingly beautiful 13ers, off trail Gore trips have provided me with a great feeling of solitude in comparison to all the other surrounding 13ers in Summit county and the front range. Maybe I have just been lucky...

In regards to Booth trailhead closing I have never been lucky enough to snag a parking spot there anyways and I always appreciated a little warm up in town before a stout west sided Gore lake approach anyways so no skin off my back if they make access to those trails a bit more difficult. If it keeps a few tourists out of lower booth valley then all the better!
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by Scott P » Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:19 pm

Jorts wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:04 pm
You win the oneupmanship award for solitude.
Think of it as an open invitation, rather than a oneupmanship. I just invited anyone interested to come on a trip (you included). Only in my dreams am I ballsy enough to visit such places solo for extended periods.

Besides, it was you that took issue with my statement: Anyway, I don't think I have ever climbed a Gore summit on a summer weekend and not seen people, even on the so called "obscure" peaks. For some reason my simple statement seems to bother you. I guess ignore it if it bothers you that much. Personally I found the discussion rather interesting. I meant no harm to you by discussing what I consider solitude.

Have a good night (and I don't mean that sarcastically). And if you do want to come on a trip, you are still invited, even if we disagree on the definitions of not seeing anyone.
I'm slow and fat. Unfortunately, those are my good qualities.
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by ltlFish99 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:03 pm

Scott P wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:36 pm
Luckily, only a small part of Colorado is like that and there are many places you can go in Colorado and not see a soul (even on holiday weekends).

Although it is sad that this has to happen, I still find it humorous that some still tout the extremely well known and crowded Gore Range as some secret or unknown. I think this shows that it is not.
The Gore Range has been very well known and very crowded for many years now. It's not surprising that something like this happened.
That is certainly true for a lot of the popular destinations in the gore. It is also a place that on a couple of weekends we found it quite empty during overnight adventures.
One weekend, the only other person we saw was a a forest ranger.
Of course, going somewhere overnight tends to be less crowded than day trip destinations.
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by Barnold41 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:06 pm

My favorite part of Booth is seeing people in khakis or jeans. And then not seeing them past the falls 8)
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by ltlFish99 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:08 pm

Tornadoman wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:55 pm
Scott P wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:36 pm
Luckily, only a small part of Colorado is like that and there are many places you can go in Colorado and not see a soul (even on holiday weekends).

Although it is sad that this has to happen, I still find it humorous that some still tout the extremely well known and crowded Gore Range as some secret or unknown. I think this shows that it is not.
The Gore Range has been very well known and very crowded for many years now. It's not surprising that something like this happened.
I would say the Gore Range trails are moderately busy in my experience. Never seen numbers above 20 or 25 or so on any trail (which may be luck); while 100+ is common on Front Range trails. The peaks seem pretty quiet, may or may not encounter 1-2 other parties on a summer weekend. Just what I have seen, and I haven't even done the more obscure peaks yet.
When a friend and I hiked to gore lake some time ago, there a lot of cars at the trailhead.
Then the usual happened, after 2 miles practically no people could be seen and we did not see anyone at all after 3 miles until re returned.
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by pvnisher » Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:24 pm

If you go further than 2 miles from the car you'll be mostly alone anywhere but on a 14er.
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by aholle88 » Sat Mar 20, 2021 6:35 am

pvnisher wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:24 pm
If you go further than 2 miles from the car you'll be mostly alone anywhere but on a 14er.
This.

Prime example, Cheyenne canyon in Colorado Springs is my backyard. There’s cars lined up everywhere on nice days, weekdays and weekends alike, good luck driving up to the upper parking. You won’t find a spot lower down either. It’s madness. BUT, even with hundreds of cars everywhere, I rarely see/pass anyone past the first couple miles of trail. Heck, even at the Garden of the Gods, running the outer loop is pretty empty other than the couple of popular spots (Siamese twins, etc). No, it’s not the solitude that Scott is talking about. That’s a different thing entirely. I did San Luis this past winter and it is a different feeling knowing you are for sure many miles from the nearest human. But, it’s still being alone for >90% of your hike/run and that’s what most of us want when looking for “solitude.”
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by SchralpTheGnar » Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:03 am

If you include the trailheads, roads, and being able to see people with high powered telescopes then yeah, you gotta go to the desert. But I know of 13ers that I’ve hiked in summer a half dozen times and saw 0 people after the first few miles but I’m not telling anyone. I’ve even done a few 14ers like that too but those I’ll tell you, little bear and el diente
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by jbchalk » Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:51 am

I was trying to remember all of my Gore ridge runs and climbs and I do believe I have actually never run into another party or single soul on one of these on the climb or ridge itself (other than folks in my own party). Of course folks at the trailhead and writhing first few miles or so in the valley, but never ever on the meat and potatoes of the day. Special to me. I’m with Jorts on this.
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