Loved. To. Death.

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Tornadoman
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by Tornadoman » Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:25 pm

Jorts wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:02 pm
Scott P wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:13 pm
Anyway, I don't think I have ever climbed a Gore summit on a summer weekend and not seen people, even on the so called "obscure" peaks. This was true even 15-20 years ago.
Really? That sucks. Here are the peaks in the Gore where I didn’t see anyone on a summer weekend day:

Eagles Nest
C through E
L :thumbup: MNO
XYZ
The Partners
W
Solitude-Climbers-Skiers
Valhalla-Palomino-Snow
Silverthorne massif
Red
Wichita (numerous times)

Guess it would have been easier to list where I’ve actually seen another party:
Powell
Keller
Buffalo

You must’ve been doing something unusual to encounter so many people.
Keller was one where we saw zero people car to car, but there were TONS of cars in the lot. I have no idea where those people were, but none of them were in the same place as us.

.
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by Tornadoman » Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:27 pm

Scott P wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:13 pm
Tornadoman wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:55 pm
I would say the Gore Range trails are moderately busy in my experience. Never seen numbers above 20 or 25
Of course crowded might be a matter of opinion, but there's an old saying that two's company; three's a crowd. 20-25 defintely qualifies as extremely crowded in my book.

I guess hiking pretty much exclusively summer 14ers from 2007 to 2016 makes me have a different idea of busy. Under 20- quiet, 20-50- moderate, 50-100 busy, Over 100- Bierstadt. :lol:
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by Scott P » Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:38 pm

Jorts wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:02 pm

Really? That sucks. Here are the peaks in the Gore where I didn’t see anyone on a summer weekend day:
Yes. I'm skeptical that you didn't see anyone on a summer weekend when going to those peaks, but OK.
Eagles Nest
There were lots of people on the approach when I went. I didn't run into people once I left Cataract Lake, but I could defintely see people down at the lake from the summit. Unless someone has poor eyesight, I can't imagine many summer weekends when people won't be visible down at Cataract Lake from the summit. That was even 20 years ago when I could see people down at the lake from the summit and I would bet that it's even more crowded now.
C through E
I'm surprised that on a summer weekend you wouldn't be able to see anyone on the approach to C or even over on Mt. Powell from the summit of Peak C. Even from Bubble Lake I could see from a distance people on Powell they would be more visible from Peak C. Mt. Powell seems to get ascents every summer weekend, which means people should be visible from Peak C; at least if you look. I'd really be suprised however if there were no people on the approach.

The only way I could maybe see not seeing any people on a summer weekend is if you take a more off the beaten track approach such as Black Creek and then if there happens to be no one on Powell that weekend (which is probably rare). People on Powell would be visible from Peak C, even with the naked eye.

D and E might be possible as long as you didn't approach from Piney Creek and as long as no other people were visible from a distance on the mountains in the vicinity.
L :thumbup: MNO
You couldn't see Highway 9 from there? No one was on the Slate Lake Trail? It would be hard not to see people either from the summits or on the approaches.
XYZ
Slate Creek is pretty popular so it would be rare that you wouldn't see anyone on the approach if you use that one. Maybe not on a more difficult approach though.
The Partners
We were there during and just after a snowstorm and we still saw some people on the approaches. Also Booth and/or Pitkin Lakes are visible from those peaks and they are defintely close enough to see people down at the lakes from those summits. There are almost always people at the lakes on a summer weekend (at least during the day). After a September snowstorm, we were the only one at the lakes, but we still saw some people not that far from the trailhead. In good weather you almost always see people at the lakes on summer weekends.
W
That one sounds possible not to see anyone as long as you don't approach via Pitkin Lake Trail. Most people do though.
Solitude-Climbers-Skiers
How would you approach those peaks without hiking up Bighorn or Pitkin Creek? Those trails always have people on summer weekends.
Valhalla-Palomino-Snow
I could see a climber on Valhalla when standing on Grand Traverse Peak. I could also see someone on Keller from there. Of course that means the reverse was also true. There were also people on the Deluge Lake Trail. Even if you used a more difficult approach to those peaks, on a summer weekend, I can't imagine that you wouldn't be able to see people down at Deluge Lake from those summits. Or even on the nearby peaks.
Silverthorne massif
The highway is visible from the summit. Even if you don't count cars as seeing people, which approach doesn't have any people on a summer weekend?
Red
Which approach wouldn't have people visible?
Wichita (numerous times)
I-70 is right there. Even if you don't count seeing cars as seeing people, there is a bike trail. You really couldn't see people on bikes from up there? It's close enough that you can see people in Frisco from up there and perhaps usually on Mt. Royal. A person standing or sitting on the rock north of Mt. Royal should be visible from Wichita. Usually lots of people hang out on that rock north of Royal, even when no one is on Wichita.
You must’ve been doing something unusual to encounter so many people.
To be clear I said I saw people, not that I always encountered them. Here's what I said: I don't think I have ever climbed a Gore summit on a summer weekend and not seen people, Even then on most approaches I did encounter people. The only approach I can think of where I didn't see anyone was Black Creek, but even then I spotted some people on Mount Powell from a distance. Just because someone might not have encountered other climbers once leaving the trail doesn't mean that he or she never saw a person either on the approach or from anywhere on the peak.

Anyway, I have gone to the Gores a few times without seeing anyone. Those were winter (including weeeknds) or non-weekend trips in late fall. In winter, as long as you aren't around the trails in places like south of Rabbit Ears Pass, Gore Pass, or around Vail you can have trips where you don't see anyone. This is true of much of the range. Even on popular summer trails such as Cataract Lake I have had a trip where we didn't see anyone else in winter.

Anyway, just because I always saw people on the summer trips in the Gores doesn't mean that it was bad. Sometimes you want to be alone, but most of the time I don't mind seeing people at all.
Last edited by Scott P on Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by yaktoleft13 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:47 pm

Does seeing someone on a summit a mile away count as seeing someone? I think not. At the very least, it doesn't affect the feeling of solitude.
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by CaptCO » Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:49 pm

Scott P wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:38 pm
Jorts wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:02 pm

Really? That sucks. Here are the peaks in the Gore where I didn’t see anyone on a summer weekend day:
Yes. I'm skeptical that you didn't see anyone on a summer weekend when going to those peaks, but OK.
Eagles Nest
There were lots of people on the approach when I went. I didn't run into people once I left Cataract Lake, but I could defintely see people down at the lake from the summit. Unless someone has poor eyesight, I can't imagine many summer weekends when people won't be visible down at Cataract Lake from the summit. That was even 20 years ago when I could see people down at the lake from the summit and I would bet that it's even more crowded now.
C through E
I'm surprised that on a summer weekend you wouldn't be able to see anyone on the approach to C or even over on Mt. Powell from the summit of Peak C. Even from Bubble Lake I could see from a distance people on Powell they would be more visible from Peak C. Mt. Powell seems to get ascents every summer weekend, which means people should be visible from Peak C; at least if you look. I'd really be suprised however if there were no people on the approach.

The only way I could maybe see not seeing any people on a summer weekend is if you take a more off the beaten track approach such as Black Creek and then if there happens to be no one on Powell that weekend (which is probably rare). People on Powell would be visible from Peak C, even with the naked eye.

D and E might be possible as long as you didn't approach from Piney Creek and as long as no other people were visible from a distance on the mountains in the vicinity.
L :thumbup: MNO
You couldn't see Highway 9 from there? No one was on the Slate Lake Trail? It would be hard not to see people either from the summits or on the approaches.
XYZ
Slate Creek is pretty popular so it would be rare that you wouldn't see anyone on the approach if you use that one. Maybe not on a more difficult approach though.
The Partners
We were there during and just after a snowstorm and we still saw some people on the approaches. Also Booth and/or Pitkin Lakes are visible from those peaks and they are defintely close enough to see people down at the lakes from those summits. They almost always have people at the lakes on a summer weekend. After a September snowstorm, we were the only one at the lakes, but we still saw some people not that far from the trailhead. In good weather you almost always see people at the lakes on summer weekends.
W
That one sounds possible not to see anyone as long as you don't approach via Pitkin Lake Trail. Most people do though.
Solitude-Climbers-Skiers
How would you approach those peaks without hiking up Bighorn or Pitkin Creek? Those trails always have people on summer weekends.
Valhalla-Palomino-Snow
I could see a climber on Vahalla when standing on Grand Traverse Peak. I could also see someone on Keller from there. Of course that means the reverse was also true. There were also people on the Deluge Lake Trail. Even if you used a more difficult approach to those peaks, on a summer weekend, I can't imagine that you wouldn't be able to see people down at Deluge Lake from those summits. Or even on the nearby peaks.
Silverthorne massif
The highway is visible from the summit. Even if you don't count cars as seeing people, which approach doesn't have any people on a summer weekend?
Red
Which approach wouldn't have people visible?
Wichita (numerous times)
I-70 is right there. Even if you don't count seeing cars as seeing people, there is a bike trail. You really couldn't see people on bikes from up there? It's close enough that you can see people in Frisco from up there and perhaps usually on Mt. Royal. A person standing or sitting on the rock north of Mt. Royal should be visible from Wichita. Usually lots of people hang out on that rock north of Royal, even when no one is on Wichita.
You must’ve been doing something unusual to encounter so many people.
To be clear I said I saw people, not that I always encountered them. Here's what I said: I don't think I have ever climbed a Gore summit on a summer weekend and not seen people, Even then on most approaches I did encounter people. The only approach I can think of where I didn't see anyone was Black Creek, but even then I spotted some people on Mount Powell from a distance. Just because someone might not have encountered other climbers once leaving the trail doesn't mean that he or she never saw a person either on the approach or from anywhere on the peak.

Anyway, I have gone to the Gores a few times without seeing anyone. Those were winter (including weeeknds) or non-weekend trips in late fall. In winter, as long as you aren't around the trails in places like south of Rabbit Ears Pass, Gore Pass, or around Vail you can have trips where you don't see anyone. This is true of much of the range. Even on popular summer trails such as Cataract Lake I have had a trip where we didn't see anyone else in winter.

Anyway, just because I always saw people on the summer trips in the Gores doesn't mean that it was bad. Sometimes you want to be alone, but most of the time I don't mind seeing people at all.
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by aholle88 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:56 pm

Jorts wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:02 pm
Scott P wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:13 pm
Anyway, I don't think I have ever climbed a Gore summit on a summer weekend and not seen people, even on the so called "obscure" peaks. This was true even 15-20 years ago.
Really? That sucks. Here are the peaks in the Gore where I didn’t see anyone on a summer weekend
You must’ve been doing something unusual to encounter so many people.
I would agree with Jorts here. I did all the ranked Eagles nest peaks from 2015-2018 and didn’t see more than a couple people on any of those trips other than at the lakes and coming down the last couple miles of the popular trails. Rarely shared a summit with anyone besides my partners (Q and L might be the only peaks I shared a summit with strangers, and Snow last year). Buffalo doesn’t count. I actually skied the silver before I knew what the Gore range even was :lol: I’ve had similar experiences with all my Sangre 13er trips. Love both of those ranges!
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by Scott P » Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:00 pm

yaktoleft13 wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:47 pm
Does seeing someone on a summit a mile away count as seeing someone?
Yes. Why wouldn't it? Take a few words out of your sentence and it reads: Does seeing someone...... count as seeing someone?
At the very least, it doesn't affect the feeling of solitude.
Of course it does.

The definition of solitude is as follows:

1 : the quality or state of being alone and remote from society

Seeing other people means you aren't completely alone nor remote from society.

There are hundreds of peaks in and around Colorado where you can be completely alone and not see anyone on the approaches or from a distance. The Gore Range isn't in one of those areas, at least not on summer weekends. It's just too popular and well known to do that. It's a good place to be too.

I'm willing to bet that people who actually do visit the more remote summits would agree.
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by Scott P » Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:03 pm

aholle88 wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:56 pm

I did all the ranked Eagles nest peaks from 2015-2018 and didn’t see more than a couple people on any of those trips other than at the lakes and coming down the last couple miles of the popular trails.
So what you are saying is that you did see people.
Rarely shared a summit with anyone besides my partners (Q and L might be the only peaks I shared a summit with strangers, and Snow last year).
Other than Meridian and Keller I didn't share any summits either. But I still saw people down on the lakes, on most of the approaches, and sometimes on nearby peaks a mile or two away (such as seeing a climber on Keller and Valhalla from the summit of Grand Traverse). Also from several peaks I could look down on the lake from a summit and see people there.

Just because you didn't share a summit with anyone else doesn't mean no other people were visible along any part of the climb or even from the summit.
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by aholle88 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:11 pm

Scott P wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:03 pm
aholle88 wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:56 pm

I did all the ranked Eagles nest peaks from 2015-2018 and didn’t see more than a couple people on any of those trips other than at the lakes and coming down the last couple miles of the popular trails.
So what you are saying is that you did see people.
Rarely shared a summit with anyone besides my partners (Q and L might be the only peaks I shared a summit with strangers, and Snow last year).
Other than Meridian and Keller I didn't share any summits either. But I still saw people down on the lakes, on most of the approaches, and sometimes on nearby peaks a mile or two away (such as seeing a climber on Keller and Valhalla from the summit of Grand Traverse).

Just because you didn't share a summit with anyone else doesn't mean no other people were visible along any part of the climb or even from the summit.
My long distant vision ain't all that great, so all the little ants that people with good vision can see, I can't. Blessing in disguise I suppose. One of these days I'll get a pair of those fancy prescription sunglasses, but until then I'll stay happy not being able to see all the people in the land far away. :-D
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by Eli Watson » Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:29 pm

I actually have no problem sacrificing the low hanging fruit to the hordes. Tell everyone what awesome hikes Bierstadt, Quandary, Grays, and Torreys are. Want something harder? Longs. What's the best hike in RMNP? The "Three Lakes" Trail, of course. There's 200 photographers at Maroon Lake every morning? Perfect. They can stay there. Indian Peak Wilderness? That's the place with the Brainard Lake hike, right? We have landfills so the trash doesn't end up everywhere else.

Anyone who really wants to find cool stuff should be rewarded by doing a modicum of research, and the more you do the better your results will be.

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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by Jorts » Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:45 pm

If seeing a highway (Rt 9) miles away from Z counts as “seeing people”?

Couple key things, I almost always start by 0600 at the latest. Seeing a few humans at the trailhead or before the lakes/cabins/falls within the first hour or last hour of a 6 hour ridge run I don’t consider “seeing people”. If I cross paths with someone on a ridge or the summit itself, then sure... I’d consider that seeing people. Truly a rarity even on weekends deep in the Gore.

I have never, ever seen another human past N10mi parking lot near Wichita.
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Re: Loved. To. Death.

Post by Scott P » Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:58 pm

Jorts wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:45 pm
Seeing a few humans at the trailhead or before the lakes/cabins/falls within the first hour or last hour of a 6 hour ridge run I don’t consider “seeing people”.
So seeing humans isn't seeing people? Ok I guess.

To me not seeing any people means not seeing anyone on the approaches, on the peaks, or from the peaks. There are hundreds of such peaks (and other places) in and around Colorado; just not in most of the Gore Range.

I stand by my statement: I don't think I have ever climbed a Gore summit on a summer weekend and not seen people.

On (literally) hundreds of other peaks yes. But never in the Gore Range. Yet at least.

In some fairly large areas, even in Colorado, I have yet to even find another footprint in 30-40 years of visiting on a fairly frequent basis.

Even as late as 2006, in Colorado, we discoved what is now known as the 18th longest natural arch in the world and the largest arch discovered anywhere in the world for a 60 year period. Even in Colorado there are a lot of untouched areas. This is even more true of some of the other Western states, even in the lower 48.

I have climbed a lot of peaks with no signs of previous ascents. On some peaks I call popular compared to these areas, there are registers on the summits that go years, or a decade, or several decades between signatures in the regsiter. I visted one peak where the last time the register was signed was 85 years prior. Although I don't do so anymore I have left registers on peaks that still had the perfectly sharpened pencil I left in the jar years or decades earlier.

On such peaks you will not see any people on the approaches, from the peaks, or on the peaks.

Last November was the last time we did a peak that was probably a first ascent. In some previous years I have done a lot more. I'm not a very good climber, but I do like visiting remote areas.

Of course on the flip side I also enjoy running into people as well. I don't mind it. Sometimes it can be a treat to run into someone in a truely remote area since it is so rare to do so. I don't even minda lot of the crowded trails either. Running into people with similar interest usually isn't a negative for me.
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