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ker0uac wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:12 am I think there are two ways of looking at the vehicle: which one has the best specs (e.g., more torque or HP, crawl ratio etc), and which one has higher quality components and engineering and more dependability? In other words, which one can I drive 200k miles without any unscheduled maintenance?

The F150 can tow twice as much as Tacoma - does that make F150 a better truck?

I am definitely not the type who can rebuild engines or gut the whole car and make mechanical modifications, so maybe that's why quality and dependability are more important for me.

I want to amen this.

My Tundra has been nothing but solid, unlike the Ford it replaced, which was on its second fuel pump at 50,000 miles and went through I don't know how many sensors or thermostats.

99% of drivers, including will never need to tow 10,000 pounds or crawl over a boulder in the middle of the Rockies--I'd rather walk that than tear up *any* vehicle, anyway.

Give me a vehicle that has a great chance of lasting nearly forever. That's the main thing to me. Not flashy electronics or specs I'd never come close to actually needing.

ker0uac wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:12 am I think there are two ways of looking at the vehicle: which one has the best specs (e.g., more torque or HP, crawl ratio etc), and which one has higher quality components and engineering and more dependability? In other words, which one can I drive 200k miles without any unscheduled maintenance?

The F150 can tow twice as much as Tacoma - does that make F150 a better truck?

I am definitely not the type who can rebuild engines or gut the whole car and make mechanical modifications, so maybe that's why quality and dependability are more important for me.

no because the F-150 overheats when towing uphill for extended periods of time. the tacoma does not.

stephakett wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 10:53 am

Conor wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:55 am
I've heard similar complaints about the new tacos as you list here. Toyota's schtick through the 90's was beefy but underpowered engine, way overbuilt tranny and driveline. They have shifted more to a "just right" model taking out a lot of the overbuilt components but left the underpowered engine. Which is leading many to the complaints you have here.

The other problem with toyota is they have never made an engine to hang their laurels on. Chevy did it, ford is doing. But, I can buy a brand new crate "LS" motor for about the same as I can buy the parts to rebuild my toyota motor, and that's sourcing through amayama. Maybe the GM motor would end up being $1000 or so more, but it also makes double the horsepower.

i see what you're saying, chevy has kept pretty much the same engine for decades (with a few flops here and there) but the engines in the toyota truck, and the gen 1, gen 2 tacomas are million mile motors. even though they've changed and evolved more than chevy motors for the last 50 years, they're incredibly reliable and will take A LOT of abuse... ford cannot compete with these, and i think they're going to have to change it up again from the twin turbo eco boost shenanigans they're pushing out right now-- it could maybe work for the bronco because they're not primarily designed for towing, but there are some overheating/spooling issues on inclines, under load that i don't want to deal with.

its_not_a_tuba wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:39 am
I am in a 2017 4Runner and I have no problems staying in the left lane on passes, well except for the problems I have with the people in front of me! I agree though that the truck does not have enough torque and feels sluggish off the line.

the 5th gen has more torque than the newest wranglers... and "sluggish off the line"??? YEAH. it's a utility vehicle, not a freakin' race car

Dave B wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:51 am My wife has a 2011 Trail Edition 4runner. I love that truck. It's definitely has way more gas to it than the gen 3 Tacos. It does what you want it to, when you want it, but on road the body roll and nose diving (even with Billy 5100s) drives me nuts. We put Duratracs on it last go around and their flimsy side wall just made the problem worse. Super fun truck off road tho...

i've seen a set of duratracs last 100K mi. they have superior traction on trails, as well as snow, and ice and the sidewall is not flimsy, in my experience. best tires i've ever had, worth every penny.

There is no million mile petro motor that doesn't have a manufacturer's recommendation for a rebuild at some point. Even my 1FZFE which toyota has "scheduled" for a "million miles" assumes 2 rebuilds. I'm putting pieces together right now and shaving corners for things where I buy from toyota manufacturer (aisin, denso, ishino stone etc), DIY, ordering from UAE or Japan etc, I'm looking at $6k plus for a full rebuild. And I feel lucky to even be able to source the parts new and OEM. The guru grand daddy of this particular engine lives in longmont and people ship their motors to him from all over the country for a $12 to $15k engine rebuild. Meanwhile, the lq4 in my landcruiser can be rebuilt for maybe a 1/3 of the cost. With the awesome aftermarket support, you don't worry as much with aftermarket parts. All parts are readily available and if I had to, I could go to any junk yard in the denver (or anywhere really) area right now and drive home with a motor that doesn't cost me an arm and a leg. And like I said, double the horse power.

Even at close to 300k on my "stock" landcruiser, stuff is breaking. 5 cylinders have compression around 140, one has 90 psi. Americans are generally poor at maintaining vehicles because of an infatuation with always having a "new vehicle." But, the cost to maintain an older vehicle is far from $0. Even when running well, there are always things you can be maintaining.

I do think ford is pretty invested in the V6 turbo'd engines. The cooling issues can be dealt with, especially since every tractor trailer deals with it every day. And those are true million mile motors.

ker0uac wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:12 am I am definitely not the type who can rebuild engines or gut the whole car and make mechanical modifications, so maybe that's why quality and dependability are more important for me.

There's 2 types: 1) those who have the mechanical will power and know how (it's not really that difficult). 2) those with $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Otherwise, you'll need to frame the quality and dependability with time as well.

Dave B wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:17 am

ker0uac wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:12 am The F150 can tow twice as much as Tacoma - does that make F150 a better truck?

If towing or payload capacity are important then, yes, it does make them a better truck. I want to be able to put 2000 lbs of camper in the bed of my truck, a Tacoma just cannot do that, hell a Tundra can't even do that. The F150 I ordered will do it no problem and tow an extra 400 lbs of tongue weight at the same time.

Fair, I should have phrased it differently. I'd say that makes F150 a better match for those who need that much towing capacity.

Conor wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:44 am

ker0uac wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:12 am I am definitely not the type who can rebuild engines or gut the whole car and make mechanical modifications, so maybe that's why quality and dependability are more important for me.

There's 2 types: 1) those who have the mechanical will power and know how (it's not really that difficult). 2) those with $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Otherwise, you'll need to frame the quality and dependability with time as well.

Well I am neither, but I would like to be #1. I am a DIY type of guy, just not very good at it. Even my plasti-dip work, probably the easiest thing ever, is subpar, but from 6ft away, it looks great. I am good at moving furniture though, never had to hire anyone for that.

I don't think there's a substantial price difference between Ford and other Asian brands. Last time I checked, F150 is more expensive than Tacoma. For anyone whose needs are easily met by the Tacoma, buying F150 is a waste of money.

ker0uac wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:51 am

Dave B wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:17 am

ker0uac wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:12 am The F150 can tow twice as much as Tacoma - does that make F150 a better truck?

If towing or payload capacity are important then, yes, it does make them a better truck. I want to be able to put 2000 lbs of camper in the bed of my truck, a Tacoma just cannot do that, hell a Tundra can't even do that. The F150 I ordered will do it no problem and tow an extra 400 lbs of tongue weight at the same time.

Fair, I should have phrased it differently. I'd say that makes F150 a better match for those who need that much towing capacity.

you're also not comparing apples to apples. the tacoma is a mid-size truck, so a comparison to the ranger makes more sense.

does anyone REALLY know what the tundra is for..? cause i think we all know it can't stand up to the rest of the full-size lineup with Ford, GMC, Chevy, or Ram

stephakett wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:26 pm

ker0uac wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:51 am

Dave B wrote: ↑Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:17 am


If towing or payload capacity are important then, yes, it does make them a better truck. I want to be able to put 2000 lbs of camper in the bed of my truck, a Tacoma just cannot do that, hell a Tundra can't even do that. The F150 I ordered will do it no problem and tow an extra 400 lbs of tongue weight at the same time.

Fair, I should have phrased it differently. I'd say that makes F150 a better match for those who need that much towing capacity.

you're also not comparing apples to apples. the tacoma is a mid-size truck, so a comparison to the ranger makes more sense.

does anyone REALLY know what the tundra is for..? cause i think we all know it can't stand up to the rest of the full-size lineup with Ford, GMC, Chevy, or Ram

It's for lasting a heck of a long time and doing just about anything most folks would ever need a full-size truck to do.

This video is funny, wonder how this truck would fare on Lake Como rd:

https://drivetribe.com/p/the-car-that-j ... 1Az0HN3FhQ

I have a 2006 dodge Durango. So far it's worked great, but with 155,000 miles it is past middle aged.
I bought it used in 2016 for $4500, so I already got my money's worth.
Other people I know who have 4 Runners love them. A gentleman with a 4 runner gave us a lift to the 4wd trailhead at matterhorn creek, and his vehicle worked great.
When I need at some point yo get a different vehicle, I will certainly look into used 4 runners.

I’ve loved my Nissan Frontier. It’s done me well on Princeton, Lindsey, and Sneffels. Definitely recommend.

I'd say Land Rover Range Rover!