Quandary Peak parking/FEE

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nyker
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Re: Quandary Peak parking/FEE

Post by nyker »

and it wasn't that long ago, most national park's I've visited up until 2020 you could have gotten in free (legally) early or late
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dan0rama
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Re: Quandary Peak parking/FEE

Post by dan0rama »

The surge in outdoor recreation in public lands during the pandemic represents a threat to businesses and governments everywhere. Those activities are mostly free, and that hurts business revenue and tax revenue. Reminds of this federal law that prohibits citizens from cooking up their own liquor at home for personal consumption, under the guise of "it's dangerous for you", but truly it's because they collect tax at a rate of $13.50 per gallon of manufactured spirit (plus state collects sales taxes and bars/liquor stores collect their profits). None of them want people partying at home with moonshine.
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justiner
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Re: Quandary Peak parking/FEE

Post by justiner »

dan0rama wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 10:15 am The surge in outdoor recreation in public lands during the pandemic represents a threat to businesses and governments everywhere. Those activities are mostly free, and that hurts business revenue and tax revenue. Reminds of this federal law that prohibits citizens from cooking up their own liquor at home for personal consumption, under the guise of "it's dangerous for you", but truly it's because they collect tax at a rate of $13.50 per gallon of manufactured spirit (plus state collects sales taxes and bars/liquor stores collect their profits). None of them want people partying at home with moonshine.
I mean making moonshine can be dangerous in a lot of ways, but the actual reason that as a population people drank too much has some merit. The solution wasn't to ban alcohol outright in a moral panic - that's completely stupid as well as impossible. But perhaps something should have been done. I do like the more contemporary solution of decriminalizing - if not outright legalizing other, and if I could editorialize: better drugs than alcohol.

Getting back on topic, I do like the idea that the pandemic is somehow the work of Big Outdoor Industry to create a conspiracy to sell you more backpacks and trail running shoes under the guise of, "getting outside for fresh air". If I disappear for revealing this (I'm far too close to all of this), fight on, in my name! Is Breckenridge really having a hard time figuring out how to make money from all the tourists coming to the town in Summer to hike that they need to control access to the trail heads themselves? I'm old enough to remember when summer was a slow season in Breck; not actually sleepy, but Breck was about Winter sports. No MTB access to the slopes in the summer, etc.
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dan0rama
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Re: Quandary Peak parking/FEE

Post by dan0rama »

justiner wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 10:55 am I mean making moonshine can be dangerous in a lot of ways, but the actual reason that as a population people drank too much has some merit. The solution wasn't to ban alcohol outright in a moral panic - that's completely stupid as well as impossible. But perhaps something should have been done. I do like the more contemporary solution of decriminalizing - if not outright legalizing other, and if I could editorialize: better drugs than alcohol.

Getting back on topic, I do like the idea that the pandemic is somehow the work of Big Outdoor Industry to create a conspiracy to sell you more backpacks and trail running shoes under the guise of, "getting outside for fresh air". If I disappear for revealing this (I'm far too close to all of this), fight on, in my name! Is Breckenridge really having a hard time figuring out how to make money from all the tourists coming to the town in Summer to hike that they need to control access to the trail heads themselves? I'm old enough to remember when summer was a slow season in Breck; not actually sleepy, but Breck was about Winter sports. No MTB access to the slopes in the summer, etc.
Is it plausible to say that allowing homemade liquor would lead people to drink more? Yes. Is it also true that allowing homemade liquor would reduce tax revenues? Yes. Now, go ahead and choose whichever justification floats your boat.

You may think it's conspiracy, but it's simply business strategy. I am not saying people are getting together in dark alleys to come up with ideas for how to curb backcountry recreation. All companies, from NetFlix to Facebook to Disney, know all the external threats to their business because they hire consultants to do that research. For instance, the more people stay at home, the better for Netflix, and if you don't believe me, go look up their stock price today. I am not saying Netflix conspires to keep people at home, but they certainly have a vested interest in making you enjoy staying at home watching TV. Since the pandemic started, consumer spending on experiences hit a historical low, as people switched to buying goods. That's great for Walmart, but not so much for Expedia. Have you seen Expedia's latest commercial?
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Re: Quandary Peak parking/FEE

Post by justiner »

dan0rama wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 12:55 pm Is it plausible to say that allowing homemade liquor would lead people to drink more? Yes. Is it also true that allowing homemade liquor would reduce tax revenues? Yes. Now, go ahead and choose whichever justification floats your boat.
There is the problem of moonshine blowing up and/or poisoning you with either methanol not being removed from the booze or lead from what you used to make the moonshine in. Those are pretty real problems and not something that a turn of the century moonshiner may be 100% able to prevent. The solution to that would be to allow the proper materials to be used, rather than rigging up a distillery using whatever you could get from the mail order catalog. Prohibition was stupid. But what also is not OK is the very real disease of alcoholism. Does having a sin tax make things better either way? This is a very interesting topic which I'm sure has been discussed many a time :)
dan0rama wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 12:55 pm You may think it's conspiracy, but it's simply business strategy. I am not saying people are getting together in dark alleys to come up with ideas for how to curb backcountry recreation. All companies, from NetFlix to Facebook to Disney, know all the external threats to their business because they hire consultants to do that research. For instance, the more people stay at home, the better for Netflix, and if you don't believe me, go look up their stock price today. I am not saying Netflix conspires to keep people at home, but they certainly have a vested interest in making you enjoy staying at home watching TV. Since the pandemic started, consumer spending on experiences hit a historical low, as people switched to buying goods. That's great for Walmart, but not so much for Expedia. Have you seen Expedia's latest commercial?
To be honest, the first time I read your comment, I thought you were being sarcastic. To answer your question, don't have Netflix, don't have a TV, haven't seen the latest Expedia commercial - try not to book flights and haven't traveled by air since 2019 (and that was for work). I have worked in Big Outdoor Industry (a label I use in jest) and like everything else, it's SNAFU'd as the global shipping + supply chain is broken. I can't sell you my favorite shoe I'm sponsored to wear if REI can't stock it!
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dan0rama
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Re: Quandary Peak parking/FEE

Post by dan0rama »

Now I cant tell whether you are being sarcastic...
justiner wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 1:17 pm To answer your question, don't have Netflix, don't have a TV, haven't seen the latest Expedia commercial - try not to book flights and haven't traveled by air since 2019 (and that was for work).
When you go to sleep at night, do you feel good knowing you are so much better than everyone? J/k 8)
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Re: Quandary Peak parking/FEE

Post by timisimaginary »

there are big businesses that benefit financially from people staying at home and watching tv (Netflix, Doritos, the NFL, Disney) and there are big businesses that benefit from people going places and doing things (Patagonia, Expedia, Delta Airlines, also Disney). i doubt either of those groups has much to do with how much it costs to park or take a shuttle for Quandary.
"The decay and disintegration of this culture is astonishingly amusing if you're emotionally detached from it." - George Carlin
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Re: Quandary Peak parking/FEE

Post by justiner »

dan0rama wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 1:47 pm Now I cant tell whether you are being sarcastic...
justiner wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 1:17 pm To answer your question, don't have Netflix, don't have a TV, haven't seen the latest Expedia commercial - try not to book flights and haven't traveled by air since 2019 (and that was for work).
When you go to sleep at night, do you feel good knowing you are so much better than everyone? J/k 8)
LOL, mostly it's because I'm, you know: poor. Being poor in general doesn't facilitate one to sleep well at night.

But the last time I went to Quandary, I took a bus to Breck, then rode a bike to the TH. I bivvied nearby, then I hiked it three times in a day to get that money's worth. Good times. I spent plenty of my dollars back in Breck. just on food from the effort.
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dan0rama
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Re: Quandary Peak parking/FEE

Post by dan0rama »

timisimaginary wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 1:57 pm there are big businesses that benefit financially from people staying at home and watching tv (Netflix, Doritos, the NFL, Disney) and there are big businesses that benefit from people going places and doing things (Patagonia, Expedia, Delta Airlines, also Disney). i doubt either of those groups has much to do with how much it costs to park or take a shuttle for Quandary.
Right and I didn't say there was a conspiracy going on. The world is run by governments and corporations and neither one of them have a vested interest in promoting backcountry recreation in public lands because it hurts their revenue streams.

I think one easy solution is to allow advertisement along the trail. That revenue can pay for infrastructure.
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Re: Quandary Peak parking/FEE

Post by Monte Meals »

^ "I think one easy solution is to allow advertisement along the trail. That revenue can pay for infrastructure."

Now I can't tell if you are being sarcastic.

I guess I would be OK with advertising on the trails ...
IF I can get a no-compete beer concession license
on the summit of the 10 most popular 14ers.
</sarc off> :mrgreen:
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speth
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Re: Quandary Peak parking/FEE

Post by speth »

justiner wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 10:55 am [I do like the idea that the pandemic is somehow the work of Big Outdoor Industry to create a conspiracy to sell you more backpacks and trail running shoes under the guise of, "getting outside for fresh air". If I disappear for revealing this (I'm far too close to all of this), fight on, in my name! Is Breckenridge really having a hard time figuring out how to make money from all the tourists coming to the town in Summer to hike that they need to control access to the trail heads themselves? I'm old enough to remember when summer was a slow season in Breck; not actually sleepy, but Breck was about Winter sports. No MTB access to the slopes in the summer, etc.
I think there's some kind of merit to this - I think most retailers care more about getting a backpack on people than taking care of the places they're sending people to. Should be more emphasis on being a good steward and not just on sales goals for synthetic socks.

All I want is to just have fun, live my life like a son of a gun
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Sarcasm or not, it's not even funny to post something like this. Not at this time. Reported.
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Re: Quandary Peak parking/FEE

Post by justiner »

The capitalistic answer to this is to have an outdoor enthusiast tax on anything you buy at say: REI. Those who are proponents of the idea think of it akin to a hunting/fishing license. Those against it think of it like taxing the very air and water we breathe.

I'm usually one to donate to the non profit that works as the caretaker of the thing I'm utilizing. So, get a membership to the Colorado Trail Foundation when I do the Colorado Trail (or the Arizona Trail), etc. These places usually have tiers, so being a broke dude, I can at least give a little. And I'm personally for it being optional. But that's the anarcho DIY dude in me that grew up in art spaces where you pay what you can, so that's where I'm getting the template for that from.
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