Elbert S&R last night

Threads related to Colorado mountaineering accidents but please keep it civil and respectful. Friends and relatives of fallen climbers will be reading these posts.
Forum rules
Please be respectful when posting - family and friends of fallen climbers might be reading this forum.
User avatar
Carl_Healy
Posts: 111
Joined: 7/29/2020
14ers:summits17 winter2 
13ers:summits8 winter1 
Contact:

Re: Elbert S&R last night

Post by Carl_Healy » Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:40 am

CaptCO wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:32 am
bluegrassclimber wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:29 am
Carl_Healy wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:31 am
Wondering if they tried GPS on their phone at all?

Don't even need a GPX track, if they had cell coverage the standard route shows up in Google Maps by default...
Your brain thinks differently in life or death scenarios, and without training/experience you may not remember things that are “automatic” under normal scenarios. Even experienced people encounter this phenomena. We read all the time about “target fixation” in airline accidents.

It’s possible they forgot - or never checked - which mapping apps have the trail on them. Or, one of the reports said they were on steep terrain aroun 12,800. Maybe they checked once it was clear the terrain was rugged, and then couldn’t find a route back to the trail. And of course, it’s possible that they only took guidance from social media, which makes Elbert seem like a walk up even to the uninitiated.

I’m glad the SAR teams successfully rescued the hikers.
Maps won’t work without cell service. Glad they made it out alive and hats off to S&R
Good points, though the KDVR story there indicated they did have cell service the whole time.

Either way glad this story had a happy ending.
If you can't run, you walk
If you can't walk, you crawl
If you can't crawl, you find someone to carry you
User avatar
nyker
Posts: 2629
Joined: 12/6/2007
14ers:summits58 
13ers:summits22 
Trip Reports (69)

Re: Elbert S&R last night

Post by nyker » Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:44 am

Agree. And it only takes one wrong turn to get lost even on what's considered an easy trail. Then throw in deep snow, storm/whiteout, approaching nightfall, panic (missing a shoe?!) and probably cold and hunger/thirst then inexperience and all bets are off.

Good work to SAR.
User avatar
daway8
Posts: 610
Joined: 8/25/2017
14ers:summits58 winter18 
13ers:summits73 winter21 
Trip Reports (47)

Re: Elbert S&R last night

Post by daway8 » Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:18 pm

CaptCO wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:32 am
bluegrassclimber wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:29 am
Carl_Healy wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:31 am
Wondering if they tried GPS on their phone at all?

Don't even need a GPX track, if they had cell coverage the standard route shows up in Google Maps by default...
Your brain thinks differently in life or death scenarios, and without training/experience you may not remember things that are “automatic” under normal scenarios. Even experienced people encounter this phenomena. We read all the time about “target fixation” in airline accidents.

It’s possible they forgot - or never checked - which mapping apps have the trail on them. Or, one of the reports said they were on steep terrain aroun 12,800. Maybe they checked once it was clear the terrain was rugged, and then couldn’t find a route back to the trail. And of course, it’s possible that they only took guidance from social media, which makes Elbert seem like a walk up even to the uninitiated.

I’m glad the SAR teams successfully rescued the hikers.
Maps won’t work without cell service. Glad they made it out alive and hats off to S&R
Works fine without cell service - I use it all the time for getting to/from trailheads outside the range of cell service, but for full functionality you have to download the maps for offline access, which these guys almost certainly wouldn't have thought of (I got burned years ago relying on Google to get to the trailhead without realizing the need to download the maps for offline access).

I always get a kick out of the tourists who see me pull out my phone and open GAIA and say "that won't work out here, there's no cell service." I smile, show them the map and our current position and inform them about the invention of satellites.
User avatar
Barnold41
Posts: 234
Joined: 9/8/2016
14ers:summits12 
13ers:summits9 

Re: Elbert S&R last night

Post by Barnold41 » Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:06 pm

It's unfortunate that SAR has to deal with situations like this, although that is part of the job... another negative of having more people in the mountains who probably wouldn't have been going before. I just don't understand the mentality of not checking forecasts, or going even when the forecast says cold and snow, if you aren't prepared for something like that. I know that certain people need to make those mistakes to learn from them, but to a point. It's November in Colorado, not July. Some friends and I were up on Snowmass Saturday when the storm rolled in about 4 hours earlier than forecasted, and luckily we were prepared for a windy/snowy day (it still made for a long day...).
User avatar
SkaredShtles
Posts: 2078
Joined: 5/20/2013
14ers: List not added

Re: Elbert S&R last night

Post by SkaredShtles » Mon Nov 09, 2020 3:45 pm

CaptCO wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:32 am
Maps won’t work without cell service.
Uhhh... yes Maps *will* work without mobile service. If you know what you're doing. :mrgreen:
User avatar
CaptCO
Posts: 1769
Joined: 7/14/2019
14ers:summits58 winter14 
13ers:summits45 winter1 
Trip Reports (5)
Contact:

Re: Elbert S&R last night

Post by CaptCO » Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:03 pm

Nope, you cannot use topo maps without pre-downloading them. You guys are wrong in what I am saying, focus more on the accident and less on the *I told you so*

or just try hiking more

(Guarantee these guys didn't have GAIA, Strava, or anything like that prior to leaving)
"It's a thing if you want it to be a thing. What others think of something is irrelevant." -OldSchool

Proof is in the progress, patience is essence; I’m crazy as a fox

"The future no longer belongs to my generation"

DM @Capt_Alec for nudes
User avatar
SchralpTheGnar
Posts: 1631
Joined: 2/26/2008
14ers:summits51 ski49 winter1 
13ers:summits28 ski21 
Trip Reports (20)

Re: Elbert S&R last night

Post by SchralpTheGnar » Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:14 pm

Reminds me of a hike I did in New Hampshire when I was about 20, hiked up a peak with a ton of snow sneakers and shorts in May, but the trail was packed so we had no problem hiking up, then we lost the trail on the way down, started post holing up to our waists, found a river to hike down and walked down this river, lost a shoe, but 4 hours later we made it back to the trailhead. Luckily now I know better.
User avatar
rpdawes
Posts: 422
Joined: 7/26/2013
14ers:summits18 winter1 
13ers:summits30 winter2 
Trip Reports (7)

Re: Elbert S&R last night

Post by rpdawes » Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:42 pm

If you are a full-time hiker, get a Garmin InReach Explorer! It's worth the investment!
User avatar
Trotter
Posts: 1061
Joined: 6/5/2013
14ers:summits53 winter5 
13ers:summits179 ski2 winter12 
Trip Reports (13)

Re: Elbert S&R last night

Post by Trotter » Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:51 pm

CaptCO wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:03 pm
Nope, you cannot use topo maps without pre-downloading them. You guys are wrong in what I am saying, focus more on the accident and less on the *I told you so*

or just try hiking more

(Guarantee these guys didn't have GAIA, Strava, or anything like that prior to leaving)
Nobody said topo maps. They said google maps. And yes it works without cell service, as long as you've looked at that area fairly recently when you were in cell service. It saves the map data.
After climbing a great hill, one only finds that there are many more hills to climb. -Nelson Mandela
Whenever I climb I am followed by a dog called Ego. -Nietzsche
User avatar
CaptainSuburbia
Posts: 584
Joined: 10/7/2017
14ers:summits58 winter32 
13ers:summits98 winter18 
Trip Reports (32)

Re: Elbert S&R last night

Post by CaptainSuburbia » Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:00 pm

One of the 10 essentials should be a gpx track on your phone.
Some day our kids will study Clash lyrics in school.
User avatar
CaptCO
Posts: 1769
Joined: 7/14/2019
14ers:summits58 winter14 
13ers:summits45 winter1 
Trip Reports (5)
Contact:

Re: Elbert S&R last night

Post by CaptCO » Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:04 pm

Luckily I think conditions since summer have been primo. Now that the snow is dumping for good, I think the rescue cases will be much more serious. I still think about the night I had to spend on Oxford, s**t sucked
"It's a thing if you want it to be a thing. What others think of something is irrelevant." -OldSchool

Proof is in the progress, patience is essence; I’m crazy as a fox

"The future no longer belongs to my generation"

DM @Capt_Alec for nudes
User avatar
SkaredShtles
Posts: 2078
Joined: 5/20/2013
14ers: List not added

Re: Elbert S&R last night

Post by SkaredShtles » Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:12 pm

CaptCO wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 4:03 pm
Nope, you cannot use topo maps without pre-downloading them.
I looked back and you didn't have this caveat stated anywhere... :roll:
Post Reply