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Re: Glissading Accident Horn's Peak (Sangres)

Posted: Thu May 07, 2020 11:38 am
by Monster5
Yes?
As much as the age trope is overused, I'd generally place younger climbers in the oblivious camp and older climbers in the heuristic trap camp. With caveat.
Either way, there is a spectrum for the sorts who stand in front of a gun barrel.
Seek it out, avoid it, ignore it, or perhaps wait until it might be unloaded. Whatever floats your boat.

Re: Glissading Accident Horn's Peak (Sangres)

Posted: Thu May 07, 2020 11:41 am
by TomPierce
d_baker wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 10:57 am
Monster5 wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 10:49 am

Ironically, in my experience, some of the best, boldest, and most-respected climbers are quite oblivious to consequences. Sometimes I wish I had their ability to turn the mind off when blitzing across a shooting gallery.
Monster, do you think they're truly oblivious or have they become complacent, falling into the heuristic traps/human factor symptoms?
Yeah, I pondered that comment too...but agree with it. Makes me wonder if it's a learned skill or just a roll of the dice. Sometimes I beat myself up for taking too conservative approach and bailing off a climb. Occasionally for objective reasons, but often for subjective reasons too fuzzy to articulate (just not into that day/"sixth sense," whatever). But afterwards I'll occasionally think about some bold people I've climbed with or knew of who would have gone forward, and then think "well, he's now dead, and that guy is dead..." There's no answer to this riddle, but worth thinking about.

-Tom

Re: Glissading Accident Horn's Peak (Sangres)

Posted: Thu May 07, 2020 11:56 am
by Trotter
d_baker wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 10:57 am
Monster5 wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 10:49 am

Ironically, in my experience, some of the best, boldest, and most-respected climbers are quite oblivious to consequences. Sometimes I wish I had their ability to turn the mind off when blitzing across a shooting gallery.
Monster, do you think they're truly oblivious or have they become complacent, falling into the heuristic traps/human factor symptoms?
Well if glissading down a snow trough has say a 1% chance of sliding, and you do it 49 times without no problems, its very easy to think its safe to do and approach the next time with no hesitation. But we all take minor risks without considering that it could go bad. Even hiking a 14er, statistically if you do it enough, you will get injured. Does that actually stop us? Clearly not.
You have to choose your level of risk you are comfortable with. Most of us would probably glissade down a slope that has a 0.1% chance of a slide...but what about 1% ? Or 10% ?

Re: Glissading Accident Horn's Peak (Sangres)

Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 2:32 pm
by dcruz654

Re: Glissading Accident Horn's Peak (Sangres)

Posted: Fri May 08, 2020 6:36 pm
by CaptCO
Wow, I think that was just very bad luck. I don’t know a fraction about avys as most of you, but that just seems wild. Impressive we’re able to send out a Blackhawk around midnight. Once again best of wishes to those involved, and a full recovery to “Climber 1”. Sounds like a solid group of individuals with decades of experience