Brad Gobright fatal climbing accident

[Garrett]

For context the 23 pitch route you're referring to is likely Time Wave Zero? Checking my photos from last March we rapped that route in about 2 hours. Rapping one at a time tradition style and stopped half way down for about 10 minutes to eat and take shoes off. I'd be interested to hear how long it took some one who simul rapped it?

[Barnold41]

RIP Brad. You died doing what you love and that's all that matters.

[dannyg23]

Everybody is focused on knots at the end of the rope here, but not the other decisions that are likely more relevant. A knot would have stopped the accident when it occurred but other practices would have prevented an accident in the first place.

To me the real problem is an increasing popularity to simul rap for artificial perception of speed. Further the issue is also to simul rap with a grigri, rather than an atc with rappel back up on two ropes.

Let me be super f***ing clear: this is not an accident which can be associated in any way with the fact that he was simul rapping. To state otherwise is a clear misunderstanding of the situation. Would Brad have performed this rappel using an ATC by himself, the result would have been no different. The only effect this had on the accident which can be attributed with the fact it was a simul rap, is that his partner also fell. In this specific incident, this guy miraculously survived it. Regardless, don’t let that confuse the situation. This was a rappelling accident, to be sure, but not specifically a simul rappelling accident. A knot at the end would have saved his life. Being sure the rope was centered would have saved his life. Another thing which you point out that could’ve saved his life: having a prussick on BOTH strands. This is not a normal way to rappel. Anybody that says different isn’t doing a lot of rappelling, and I know that’s condescending but that level of redundancy only makes sense for a person that is gripped out of their f***ing mind and performing their first rappel. There are plenty of more practical ways to safely handle a rappel.

[Garrett]

"Another thing which you point out that could’ve saved his life: having a prussick on BOTH strands. This is not a normal way to rappel. Anybody that says different isn’t doing a lot of rappelling"

I disagree. Look up autoblock. This is in fact a very standard means of backing up a rappel.

[FireOnTheMountain]

Remember when I had the foresight to see an ensuing pissing match? But Danny nailed it, and is what I was getting at to begin with.

Overall, Monster has had success simul-rapping in the past and Garret has had success not doing so. No need to pass judgement on either or the deceased. Likewise, no need to pass judement on Garret for using a 3rd hand on all of his raps. Do what you and your partner are comfortable with as climbing decisions should always be mutual.

As a follow up to Justiner's comment, I routinely carry an ATC guide AND gri-gri on bigger wall outings, but some may be flabbergasted by this. Much like some may be flabbergasted with a friction hitch on every rap.

[dannyg23]

People can choose to rappel with an autoblock, there’s nothing wrong with that. There are a LOT of safe ways to rappel and many great safety practices that can help you get down. I’m an advocate of any safe rappel teqnique. I’m just trying to point out that this accident can not reasonably be attributed to the fact that he was simul rappelling.

[speth]

"Another thing which you point out that could’ve saved his life: having a prussick on BOTH strands. This is not a normal way to rappel. Anybody that says different isn’t doing a lot of rappelling"

I disagree. Look up autoblock. This is in fact a very standard means of backing up a rappel.

I think the insinuation here is an autoblock/third hand on both strands while simulrapelling. If you're performing a normal rap, the autoblock on both makes sense, but if simul, then you're creating clutter with two sets of autoblocks on both strands. I'm not justifying or saying it's good or bad, just clarifying the discussion.

[dannyg23]

No, Garrett interpreted my comment correctly, I was talking about an autoblock for a standard rappel. I regret that I brushed this safety measure off and I fully support people using it. In my own personal climbing community, this additional step is not common, but it’s certainly valid. I’m not personally convinced that this, combined with a standard rap using an atc would’ve made a difference in this particular incident, however it certainly might have. That rope would’ve ripped through fast as hell though and likely not while the autoblock was engaged, and with little additional rope length for it to engage.

My point is simply that the accident was not the result of the fact they were simul rappelling.

There are two things that would have absolutely saved Brad, and they are not related to simul rappeling at all:

1. Center the rope, or otherwise be damn sure you have the length you need.
2. Knot the ends.

[dhgold]

Can't rappel with a gri gri on a double strand rope ...

Yes you can.
https://www.climbing.com/gear/rappellin ... y-devices/

I've used this technique on many occassions to clean a sport route without lowering through the anchors. However, it takes more time to set up and introduces another potential source of error, clipping the biner to the wrong strand. I would not have wanted to use it on Time Wave.

Also, my two cents on simul-rapping: even with employing all suplemental safety measures, it gives me the willies. I think it's rarely advisable, let alone necessary. I supsect that most of the time it's employed is because it seems cool.

[justiner]

Can't rappel with a gri gri on a double strand rope ...

Yes you can.
https://www.climbing.com/gear/rappellin ... y-devices/

Yeah get that, but in this context, we're talking simul-rapping to save time. This technique does not save time, and comes with its own problems, like rigging it wrong.

Anyways, this ain't a double-strand rope is it? It's a single strand, with a pull cord. Now you gotta bring a pull cord up a dozen+ pitches. And I guess then, what weighs more: a pull chord, or an ATC?

It does sort of highlight the interesting situation of Potrero, where you want to believe it's a sport climbing place, but a lot of the issues get into multipitch trad/mountaineering. Not many other places in the world where there's a bivy ledge in the middle of a sport climb.

Also, my two cents on simul-rapping: even with employing all suplemental safety measures, it gives me the willies. I think it's rarely advisable, let alone necessary. I supsect that most of the time it's employed is because it seems cool.

There's a lot I agree with you here: if you employ ALL the safety measures, you remove a lot of the benefits of a simul-rap. When we were in Potrero, I don't think we ever felt the need to do it. I was a fairly new climber though, so my partner probably didn't feel comfortable using it with me.

[FireOnTheMountain]

I supsect that most of the time it's employed is because it seems cool.

Respectfully Mr. Goldstein (as Amy would want me to call you), getting down a long, 500'+ bolted rap line before dark is also pretty cool. Time and place for it man. If you know the raps especially, trust your partner and each wield an assisted braking device, it can be a no brainer in a place like Yosemite or EPC in my very humble opinion. Start traversing and such and I get a little weary whereas some may not.

Sometimes 10min is seriously a big deal, as in save 10min over 5 raps to find that very last anchor. I know normal rapping can be fast also especially if no knots or backups are used...1 gets down, start feeding the strand for the next rap, etc. It can go fast, but simul can go faster.

Moving fast in the mountains, and on rock, is as traditional as apple pie. Brad was very much known for his feats of fast and big ass linkups. Haven't climbed in Yosemite but his links with Scott Bennett were super badass. I personally was always very much impressed with him & AH linking Levitation, Rainbow and cloud tower (w/ the 12 finish & topout) at RR IAD! What crushers...but I digress. Maybe its just a new school vs old school mentality (see appropriately named screen name above) but at the end of the day its super sad to have lost such a BA ....And so fortunate for the partner, just crazy.

PS Amy's been gettin back at it, however much she may not want me disclosing this publicly.

[Conor]

I will always detest rappelling. It takes time, it becomes uber tiring pulling and coiling rope all the time and that is additive of being whipped after climbing. And I seem to always be that lucky person who gets their rope(s) stuck. Personally, I am uber cautious and encourage my partners to do the same. I may be in the minority, but I would rather rap in the dark than employ simul climbing. All this, of course is taken into account when making the decision to be potentially stuck on a wall with external forces which could cause a rapid descent (e.g. better weather than if I was just going for a hike).

As another person said, I tie knots all the time. I will untie the knots at an anchor while my partner is rapping, thread rope and retie the knot(s). 75% of the time I back up my rap with a prussik. I refuse to be rushed on a descent by anything that isn't life threatening. Not being rushed and being slow don't have to necessarily be tied to each other. Practice your system and be efficient.

My learnings from this incident are quite simple. Backups can save your life - Employ them if the situation dictates. Practice your system and practice the systems you may employ. If you plan to simul rap, the time to do it for the first time isn't when lightning is cracking all around you. Of course, this is what I have learned. Some of it may or may not have anything to do with the death of Gobright. Always sad to hear of a climber dying.