Perils of route finding on Crestone Needle, Aug 13-15

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EZsummits
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Re: Perils of route finding on Crestone Needle, Aug 13-15

Post by EZsummits »

XterraRob wrote:+1 on ascending and descending via the East Gulley. The West Gulley isn't obvious coming off of the summit and it's easy to get sucked into one of the other gulleys that bring you down near Cottonwood Lake. If it wasn't for that mini cairn on the rock outcropping in the West Gulley, it would have been a pain to locate the crossover.

I think it would make more sense to nominate the Class 4 East Gulley direct as the standard route for Needle as it's easier to navigate. Having the Class 3 variation as the standard route doesn't properly identify the difficulty in route finding and maybe misleads those who feel their class 3 experience on other 14ers is suitable for this peak.
+1 on this. It is way easier to navigate and the class 4 section is pretty short.
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Re: Perils of route finding on Crestone Needle, Aug 13-15

Post by asnellstrom »

When we climbed these peaks we did the traverse from peak to needle. Once we decided to descend people started telling us 'don't get lost' and 'make sure you get the right gully.' Never seeing the route before we ventured down until we hiked about 20ft past a LARGE cairn. Realizing this was probably where people get lost all the time, we traversed up and over into the next gully and never had any issue. i guess I'm just saying keep your eyes open and there really shouldn't be any issues... Unless someone has removed said cairn
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Re: Perils of route finding on Crestone Needle, Aug 13-15

Post by rijaca »

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Re: Perils of route finding on Crestone Needle, Aug 13-15

Post by polar »

jfolwell1 wrote:I feel lots of these problems go away if folks would just pack a rope. I've always packed rope for class 4 scrambles. May not need it but it sure can save yer bacon if ya do. Sure its a bit more weight w/ harness and a few friends but it can make easy quick work out of a troublesome decent.
I disagree. Using a rope safely involves a lot more skills and knowledge than the average 14ers hikers possess. Simply carrying a rope without the know-how doesn't make the problems of route finding go away.
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Re: Perils of route finding on Crestone Needle, Aug 13-15

Post by TallGrass »

EZsummits wrote:
XterraRob wrote:I think it would make more sense to nominate the Class 4 East Gulley direct as the standard route for Needle as it's easier to navigate. Having the Class 3 variation as the standard route doesn't properly identify the difficulty in route finding
+1 on this. It is way easier to navigate and the class 4 section is pretty short.
+2 along the lines that the standard route on North Maroon is class 4 even though some traverse around (class 3). Better to expect C4 and end up on C3, than expect C3 and end up on C4.
jfolwell1 wrote:I feel lots of these problems go away if folks would just pack a rope. ... Sure its a bit more weight w/ harness and a few friends but it can make easy quick work out of a troublesome decent.
I feel people packing rope would add more problems. For starters, what are you going to anchor to, and with what? Retrieve how? What if your rap off one cliff only to get into cliffier terrain you can ascend from? What if newbs rapp of their ends?

Rope+gear are great tools (I relish a good rap). The problem lies in that most who sketch out at class 4 (i.e. max comfort: class 3) don't know how to use them, and those that do wouldn't for that gully. A safer rope method, IMHO, is to downclimb with a prusik on the rope. If the rope fails you've got your holds, and if your holds you got rope. It also lessens the chance of rapping past what you can't re-climb leading to spelunking games. Rapping also puts all the eggs in one basket, and is more likely than downclimbing to result in a plummet if a failure occurs.

Probing Needle gullies at night, we downclimbed with a top belay as a safety or followed with a prusik. Only fruit was more climbing bagged as we eventually bivied for the better light dawn afforded.
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Re: Perils of route finding on Crestone Needle, Aug 13-15

Post by XterraRob »

TallGrass wrote:
EZsummits wrote:
XterraRob wrote:I think it would make more sense to nominate the Class 4 East Gulley direct as the standard route for Needle as it's easier to navigate. Having the Class 3 variation as the standard route doesn't properly identify the difficulty in route finding
+1 on this. It is way easier to navigate and the class 4 section is pretty short.
+2 along the lines that the standard route on North Maroon is class 4 even though some traverse around (class 3). Better to expect C4 and end up on C3, than expect C3 and end up on C4.
+3
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Re: Perils of route finding on Crestone Needle, Aug 13-15

Post by jfolwell1 »

TallGrass wrote:
EZsummits wrote:
XterraRob wrote:I think it would make more sense to nominate the Class 4 East Gulley direct as the standard route for Needle as it's easier to navigate. Having the Class 3 variation as the standard route doesn't properly identify the difficulty in route finding
+1 on this. It is way easier to navigate and the class 4 section is pretty short.
+2 along the lines that the standard route on North Maroon is class 4 even though some traverse around (class 3). Better to expect C4 and end up on C3, than expect C3 and end up on C4.
jfolwell1 wrote:I feel lots of these problems go away if folks would just pack a rope. ... Sure its a bit more weight w/ harness and a few friends but it can make easy quick work out of a troublesome decent.
I feel people packing rope would add more problems. For starters, what are you going to anchor to, and with what? Retrieve how? What if your rap off one cliff only to get into cliffier terrain you can ascend from? What if newbs rapp of their ends?

Rope+gear are great tools (I relish a good rap). The problem lies in that most who sketch out at class 4 (i.e. max comfort: class 3) don't know how to use them, and those that do wouldn't for that gully. A safer rope method, IMHO, is to downclimb with a prusik on the rope. If the rope fails you've got your holds, and if your holds you got rope. It also lessens the chance of rapping past what you can't re-climb leading to spelunking games. Rapping also puts all the eggs in one basket, and is more likely than downclimbing to result in a plummet if a failure occurs.

Probing Needle gullies at night, we downclimbed with a top belay as a safety or followed with a prusik. Only fruit was more climbing bagged as we eventually bivied for the better light dawn afforded.
Was just speaking out of my personal experience. Sure there are the sheeple out there who would put the rope around their necks. :shock:
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