Skiing a Peak: What it takes

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aholle88
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by aholle88 » Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:43 pm

justiner wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:01 pm
I think you just described https://powderproject.com
Ha! You are correct, didn’t realize you could log the trails and “lines” you’ve done on there. I have my own detailed spreadsheet on my computer for all the summits/lines/routes, etc so I don’t really care one way or another, just thought Bill might get bored here in a month or 2 when ski season is over and before hunting begins :lol:
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by TakeMeToYourSummit » Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:17 pm

Put a checkmark next to your name when you started your ski hundreds of feet down... sure :? if that's how you roll. Winter checkmark for an early April ascent... seems odd #-o, but its your list. Checkmark for not even summiting... ughhh :^o this trend just keeps getting worse (slippery slope, pun & all). Clearly no one is going to "police" anyone on this stuff but checkmarking a lie is about as realistic as saying I own that horse in a certain profile picture (I'm guessing you would take offence to this claim). By all means; have fun in the mountains & enjoy whatever your adventure entails. A fun adventure ≠ required summit check mark, or use of any internet program really. To be clear - marking these things is your choice & it doesn't make me mad (unless your trying to claim to be some sort of finisher or record holder). Honestly these types of things just make me laugh! Otina did a good job presenting the basic requirements (and yes there is some grey) of a summit descent. I've had many, many, many great days in the mountains with my friends & my board where we got to do a lot of riding. If I didn't drop from the summit (or the ski poles length) or the accepted starting point then I include just the tally of the peak & chalk the ride down as part of the fun time.

+17 (or however many of you said this) that we will never all agree on something like this, but trying to be closer to Lou's vision is not a bad thing.
I've had beers with him too - he's really a great guy!
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by bergsteigen » Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:24 pm

Skiing a Peak: A step by step guide.

1. Pick good partners (with Avy training)

2. Pick a peak and a desired line to ski
- It’s good to start with easy skis. Ie peaks that almost always have a ski line in from the summit. How do you find these easy peaks? Trip Reports in bad snow years is a good start. While driving in the mountains - look up! Look for beta in conditions reports (as long as conditions reports don’t lie) Note: Bierstadt, while being an easy hike, is rarely a good ski, even if it was my first 14er skied.

3. Start from the trailhead very early. In spring, east should be skied at 8-9am, south 9-10, west 10-11, north 11-12. This means being on the summit well before the time you want to be skiing the line. Timing snow conditions is a science and an art, it takes a long time to master.

4. Skin to the summit via the line you want to ski down. Crampons, ice ax or whippet can be very useful, especially as lines get steeper than 30.

5. On the summit (with your skis by your side, Ie don’t forget them!!!) eat snacks, drink water, take photos. Look around at other peaks, note where they have and do not have snow on them. Note: From Bierstadt, Squaretop was clearly dry and *not in*. Peaks without snow to the summit are much less fun. It means more work. Work sucks. Walking on rocks with ski boots suck.

6. Click into your skis ON THE SUMMIT or hopefully within a few feet of the summit.

*If there is no snow anywhere NEAR the summit => repeat steps 1-6 and try again. This is very important if you want a skier icon.

7. Ski down the peak on a continuous line of snow. Sometimes there will be a short break in snow. Either ski over the rocks or walk over them. Sometimes walking to a slightly higher patch of snow keeps a continuous line.

8. Get back to trailhead. Have a snack or a drink. Smiles all around!

This is about as blunt as I can be about *how* to ski a peak. There are nuances and a lot to learn along the way. It took me a long time to figure it out. I chose the wrong peaks at the wrong time of year. I failed to get a *summit descent* on my first 3 14er tries. This is normal! I kept at it. Failure is an opportunity to learn!


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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by Dave B » Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:49 pm

bergsteigen wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:24 pm
Skiing a Peak: A step by step guide.
Instructions unclear, ended up accidentally mixing ammonia and bleach, forgot to take #skimo summit pic.
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by jfm3 » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:13 pm

*Disclaimer: I've never skied a peak. I'm a cross-country skier- I've been on downhill skis exactly once in my life, in 8th grade at Copper Mountain.

I have a little saying I use to motivate myself when I'm doing hillbounding intervals in the dark, or suffering through another day of running while waiting for the snow to fall in December: if you don't take yourself seriously, why would anyone else? If you claim to have accomplished something, make sure it's done right.
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by weakenedwarrior » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:15 pm

bergsteigen wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:24 pm
3. Start from the trailhead very early. In spring, east should be skied at 8-9am, south 9-10, west 10-11, north 11-12. This means being on the summit well before the time you want to be skiing the line. Timing snow conditions is a science and an art, it takes a long time to master.
I understand this is a general rule of thumb with several caveats depending on conditions. Looking at James Peak SE slopes for Sunday for example, would you say that timing doesn't matter as much? I would expect there to be a fair amount of fresh snow and with temps in the 10s until early afternoon, the risk of it turning into a slushy mess is quite low. Or am I missing something?
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by Scary_Canary » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:17 pm

supranihilest wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:42 pm

Yes, I know who you are, we have spoken before. I have read every response in this thread, including yours. Your posts have been dripping with sarcasm and venom (knife sharpening, head chopping, snarky 50 Shades references, "sarcastic quotes", talking down to people, among other things), which doesn't sound like praying [-o< nor worshipping/begging :bow: to learn. They have all read, to me, like you're going out of your way to deliberately misunderstand "do your best to ski as continuous a line as possible from the summit" in an attempt to invalidate any guidelines Otina or anyone else might provide.
I am aware we have spoken.
I word things the way I do for a reason. This whole thing doesnt seem to be started with good intentions or in good faith, just as a way to call out someone on their TR. She has been oozing elitism all over the place, including the TR and this thread. Saying if you dont follow what I say, you cant get that icon or claim a ski descent. "This is the community that makes the rules, not some noob." Shes really looking for nice responses?
Are we talking about community rules? Or Otinas rules? There is one answer here I do know.
"Keep your list private if you don't want to follow the rules!" I'm not speaking for her, shes doing it herself. These are really encouraging words for noobs to the community.

The TR comment couldve been solved with a simple PM. PMing someone isn't worth her time however lets make a thread about it. She wanted to go even more public with it so here we are. The way I took the very first post, it came off with a nasty sour taste. What has followed has been severely lacking in her interpretation of the law. Why was this thread necessary? She wants to hold people accountable supposedly. The person who's "skied" two peaks.

She opensd herself up to Public commnt and input, so here we are.
She has been quite rude and curt to people who she doesn't deem even worthy of this discussion. Implying those not on her list of elites are all "younger generation this, younger generation that, who can't respect rules!" They need to be shown how the old timers do it. "Hikeneers have no room in this discussion of skiiers." Dismissing them entirely without question. Great way to make room for discussion. Thankfully I ski, so I have been allowed to continue in here eyes.

I'm not trying to deliberately misunderstand, but I also am not the only one here pointing out the glaring contradictions on her own standards. Why call people trolls for doing so? I'm legitimately trying to understand what the ski communities rules are. She posted a link to what she follows, so I read it through. Practice what you preach? If shes going to call people out on not following rules or doing things in the spirit of Dawson, she can certainly be asked a few questions too, and I did.

Can one count that they climbed to the exact summit of sunlight if they only touched it with a pole tip? Again with nuances, but they do matter here. Dawson explicitly says he climbs to the exact summit if he's going to count it as a ski descent. Exact summit, sounds to me pretty definitive. Otherwise its a no go. Even if he starts skiing a few ft down, he always goes to the exact summit no matter what. Or another attempt must be made. She did not attempt the final summit block, for safety reasons. She even claims in her TR she doesn't feel comfortable marking it as a ski descent, but with her interpretation of Dawson's rules, minus the summit part, she counted it for now. Doubtful she'll go back to climb that few extra ft, its a lot of painstaking work.
"I go back again and again ’till I get it right. To me this is a critical part of my standards"
"of course I climbed to the exact summit of every peak as that’s an important component of claiming a ski descent. In ski mountaineering tradition, one usually doesn’t say they skied a peak unless they climb it to the summit"
Hmm.

Atleast we are maybe making some progress 14 pages later.
The risk I took was calculated, but I'm terrible at math.
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by jmanner » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:20 pm

(Edited) Intense personalities arent going to change or back down here. Best to come to terms with that and move on.
Last edited by jmanner on Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by Tornadoman » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:22 pm

Scary_Canary wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:17 pm
supranihilest wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:42 pm

Yes, I know who you are, we have spoken before. I have read every response in this thread, including yours. Your posts have been dripping with sarcasm and venom (knife sharpening, head chopping, snarky 50 Shades references, "sarcastic quotes", talking down to people, among other things), which doesn't sound like praying [-o< nor worshipping/begging :bow: to learn. They have all read, to me, like you're going out of your way to deliberately misunderstand "do your best to ski as continuous a line as possible from the summit" in an attempt to invalidate any guidelines Otina or anyone else might provide.
"Hikeneers have no room in this discussion of skiiers." Dismissing them entirely without question. Great way to make room for discussion. Thankfully I ski, so I have been allowed to continue in here eyes.
Why is Supra even commenting on this thread? His opinion bears no weight as a hikeneer....
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by bergsteigen » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:32 pm

weakenedwarrior wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:15 pm
bergsteigen wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:24 pm
3. Start from the trailhead very early. In spring, east should be skied at 8-9am, south 9-10, west 10-11, north 11-12. This means being on the summit well before the time you want to be skiing the line. Timing snow conditions is a science and an art, it takes a long time to master.
I understand this is a general rule of thumb with several caveats depending on conditions. Looking at James Peak SE slopes for Sunday for example, would you say that timing doesn't matter as much? I would expect there to be a fair amount of fresh snow and with temps in the 10s until early afternoon, the risk of it turning into a slushy mess is quite low. Or am I missing something?
This is where timing is so tricky to get perfect. General rule of thumb work most times, but then comes in weather. Wind and a slow warm up mean that these generalized rules won’t work so well.

Sunday
Mostly sunny, with a high near 22. Blustery, with a west wind 13 to 16 mph, with gusts as high as 26 mph.

From what I remember on James, it’s windy AF up there. Will the sun or the wind win out? My guess is that the wind will keep things fairy cold. Last peak I skied, the snow stayed frozen up top, and only a much lower valley zone out of the wind corned up. It’s still early spring. Those generalized rules are more for late April and May.
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by aholle88 » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:38 pm

weakenedwarrior wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:15 pm
bergsteigen wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:24 pm
3. Start from the trailhead very early. In spring, east should be skied at 8-9am, south 9-10, west 10-11, north 11-12. This means being on the summit well before the time you want to be skiing the line. Timing snow conditions is a science and an art, it takes a long time to master.
I understand this is a general rule of thumb with several caveats depending on conditions. Looking at James Peak SE slopes for Sunday for example, would you say that timing doesn't matter as much? I would expect there to be a fair amount of fresh snow and with temps in the 10s until early afternoon, the risk of it turning into a slushy mess is quite low. Or am I missing something?
This is where the science/art detail comes into play. Air temperature is only one variable. If it’s sunny and there’s low wind, 15 degrees can feel smoking hot on an exposed eastern/southern aspect and will still turn the snow into mash potatoes. A little cloud cover/high clouds and some wind, and then the snow might stay good for a while. Always better to get there earlier than later, especially with fresh snow on the table.
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by Col_Forbin » Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:09 pm

BillMiddlebrook wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:26 pm
Scary_Canary wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:52 am
This was a gigantic waste of time.
I don't think it was. At a minimum, it made me think of stuff I can add to the checklist and trip report pages to help clarify ski descents, winter ascents, etc. I certainly don't want the "Skied ON this Peak" trip reports to go away because they are very helpful.

I hope to have something in a few days. I promise it won't be perfect but I'll make an attempt and will welcome public input.
Bill, you're the man! I think a simple asterisk to label a ski descent being not from the true summit would be easy?

A board icon would be great too. :mrgreen: Sorry can't help it!
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