Skiing a Peak: What it takes

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BillMiddlebrook
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by BillMiddlebrook » Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:26 pm

Scary_Canary wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:52 am
This was a gigantic waste of time.
I don't think it was. At a minimum, it made me think of stuff I can add to the checklist and trip report pages to help clarify ski descents, winter ascents, etc. I certainly don't want the "Skied ON this Peak" trip reports to go away because they are very helpful.

I hope to have something in a few days. I promise it won't be perfect but I'll make an attempt and will welcome public input.
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by Matt » Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:28 pm

rijaca wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:23 am
Can you claim a ski descent if you didn't climb the peak?
Hell no!
You gotta climb those Chugatch to count them.
Every Fall, we are inudated with movies full of dick-waving, heli-skiing noobs who don't know the rules.
They should read this thread asap to get themselves right and be respected here.
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by SnowAlien » Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:32 pm

lodgling wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:46 am
In my mind, any self-respecting 14er skier does all three lines on Sneffels, Castle and Torreys. So far I am 2/3 on Sneffels and Castle and 1/3 on Torreys.
I am 2/3 on Castle and Torreys and 1/3 on Sneffels, definitely looking to do the Snake soon. Also 3/3 on Quandary. If we start doubling or tripling lines, it can be quite a long list!😋 and btw, Torreys has 4 lines! (the ultimate skier peak, imho).
But what is the 3rd line on Castle? You don't mean the North face (isn't it rarely in?) East face is fantastic for sure, I'll do it again in a heartbeat.
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by aholle88 » Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:57 pm

lodgling wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:46 am
gb wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:41 am

And then there's Sneffels. The money line is definitely the Snake or it's longer brother which I won't name. But then you're rapping off the top- so do you count it even though the lower quality (but still good) Birthday chutes go right off the top? I've done both so I'm covered, but it still brings up an interesting discussion point. Lou and I traded a few emails over this one :)
In my mind, any self-respecting 14er skier does all three lines on Sneffels, Castle and Torreys. So far I am 2/3 on Sneffels and Castle and 1/3 on Torreys.
It would be a neat feat to ski all the lines on all the peaks wouldn’t it? Torreys has the 4 major options: DD, TF x2, Emp, East Face. Eroica? And south paw as well but those aren’t really summit lines. Grays has 3: standard bowl, south side (good early summer line), and LR. Quandary has like 4-5, 3 of which get filled in consistently. Democrat has 3 major zones with multiple lines in each (SE face, Emma, N face). Lincoln has a few (glory, amphitheater, cabin/Russian). Sneff has the big 3. Wilson has the box car, amoitheatre, and north face. Pikes east face and north with multiple options. The list goes on..

Maybe there should be more checkboxes so we can click the routes we’ve done instead of whether or not it’s a summit ski.
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by justiner » Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:01 pm

I think you just described https://powderproject.com
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by supranihilest » Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:07 pm

Scary_Canary wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:52 am
"What does it take to ski a peak?"
-Younger Generation [-o< :bow:
I'm not sure I've seen even a single post to this effect from the "younger generation".
"No one is going to agree on everything."
"How exactly do you strictly define that into “rules”? You can’t."

So we need to follow what rules exactly?
Oh, right. Dawson's! But, we can also bend those to our liking.

"So unfortunately there will never be strict criteria. It will be up to the skiers discretion." ](*,)
Yup, it's called "shades of gray existing does not mean everything is a quantum superposition of gray, black, and white simultaneously." Context and nuance are important, as is using your brain. There's very obvious white, there's very obvious black. Then there's "use your gray matter gray". If you stopped looking at it like "this thing is slightly different from this thing, and because a general rule doesn't describe this to the micron either everything counts or nothing counts" that would solve a lot of your problems with the idea of having general rules and definitions. We have general rules and guidelines in every sport and career and technology field I can think of. That doesn't invalidate the goal those general rules and guidelines are trying to reach. I don't even ski and I've got it mostly figured out what would or would not count as a valid summit ski descent. It's really not hard.
BillMiddlebrook wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:26 pm
Scary_Canary wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:52 am
This was a gigantic waste of time.
I don't think it was. At a minimum, it made me think of stuff I can add to the checklist and trip report pages to help clarify ski descents, winter ascents, etc. I certainly don't want the "Skied ON this Peak" trip reports to go away because they are very helpful.

I hope to have something in a few days. I promise it won't be perfect but I'll make an attempt and will welcome public input.
Bill to the rescue! =D>
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by rijaca » Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:22 pm

Matt wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:28 pm
rijaca wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:23 am
Can you claim a ski descent if you didn't climb the peak?
Hell no!
You gotta climb those Chugatch to count them.
Every Fall, we are inudated with movies full of dick-waving, heli-skiing noobs who don't know the rules.
They should read this thread asap to get themselves right and be respected here.
So you're saying that my one measly ski descent checkmark is invalidated cause I didn't climb the peak the day I skied it?
"A couple more shots of whiskey,
the women 'round here start looking good"
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by 12ersRule » Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:38 pm

rijaca wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:22 pm
Matt wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:28 pm
rijaca wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:23 am
Can you claim a ski descent if you didn't climb the peak?
Hell no!
You gotta climb those Chugatch to count them.
Every Fall, we are inudated with movies full of dick-waving, heli-skiing noobs who don't know the rules.
They should read this thread asap to get themselves right and be respected here.
So you're saying that my one measly ski descent checkmark is invalidated cause I didn't climb the peak the day I skied it?
Oh wow, it never occurred to me that I could count that one. You had to have hiked at least 10 minutes, so I'd count it. Are you sure you started at the tippy top though?
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by Scary_Canary » Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:41 pm

BillMiddlebrook wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:26 pm
I hope to have something in a few days. I promise it won't be perfect but I'll make an attempt and will welcome public input.
Bill, you are a wonderful person for the constant effort you put into improving this site! Thank you. It will be nice to have some clarification in that sense if there can be. I do agree those ski TRs are insanely useful, I read them daily. I'd hope people wouldnt be discouraged from posting them over fear of being roasted by icon elitists.
The risk I took was calculated, but I'm terrible at math.
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by lodgling » Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:52 pm

SnowAlien wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:32 pm
But what is the 3rd line on Castle? You don't mean the North face (isn't it rarely in?) East face is fantastic for sure, I'll do it again in a heartbeat.
South face route towards CB. Similar to E face, but less options that actually go. I think gb recommends doing it with someone who has done it before.

By the way, if anyone is unfamiliar, gb and his wife have a great blog: https://14erskiers.com/blog/

One more point that I don't think has been made is that for a lot of people that are truly passionate about something, the history of that something is material and can lend a bit more meaning. I think that is especially true here, where we are engaged a mostly meaningless activity. The history of 14er skiing is important to me because my goal is to try to do something others have done (or maybe haven't done before) to be part of that history or at least feel like it. Joe's TR from Capitol seems to capture that feeling: https://14ers.com/php14ers/tripreport.php?trip=5739 I found the "rules" made more sense in the context of Colorado ski mountaineering history, which outside of Colorado, no one really cares about.
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by Scary_Canary » Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:16 pm

supranihilest wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:07 pm

I'm not sure I've seen even a single post to this effect from the "younger generation"
Hi, Carrie speaking: *younger gen* skier chiming in. Hello!
Not to mention the dude this whole thing was started over? Who she publicly blasted, and opened up this entire discussion about.
Also calling out other forum members on questionable icon earning in this thread.
Sorry, I have no problems asking questions.

I've directly asked multiple times for what these guidelines are, since shes so passionate about the subject. The strict rules of Dawson's ski descents. What everyone who wants to earn an icon follows to a T. It took two tries to even get a link beyond a small quote to her guidelines shes trying to "educate" us youngins about. 5? Pages in.
The "community" is very strict on these standards, so why so much contradiction? You clearly read my previous post, so there's a few examples with quotes from Dawson himself. If you're calling people out on rules, it shouldnt be so hard to spit out what they are when asked. But its been like pulling teeth getting much clarification. Was this a PSA? I thought it was.
Just like claiming a "summit" is far more nuanced than it seems; claiming a "ski descent" is the same way. They both have very strict, and vague definitions too. Of which, NOONE can agree, but some argue about.
Silly checklisters.

If people are serious about eventually finishing the list, yeah the little nuances absolutely do count. They WILL be called out, that was made clear in the very beginning.
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Re: Skiing a Peak: What it takes

Post by supranihilest » Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:42 pm

Scary_Canary wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:16 pm
supranihilest wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:07 pm

I'm not sure I've seen even a single post to this effect from the "younger generation"
Hi, Carrie speaking: *younger gen* skier chiming in. Hello!
Not to mention the dude this whole thing was started over? Who she publicly blasted, and opened up this entire discussion about.
Sorry, I have no problems asking questions.

I've directly asked multiple times for what these guidelines are, since shes so passionate about the subject. The strict rules of Dawson's ski descents. What everyone who wants to earn an icon follows to a T. It took two tries to even get a link beyond a small quote to her guidelines shes trying to "educate" us youngins about. 5? Pages in.
The "community" is very strict on these standards, so why so much contradiction? You clearly read my previous post, so there's a few examples with quotes from Dawson himself. If you're calling people out on rules, it shouldnt be so hard to spit out what they are when asked. But its been like pulling teeth getting much clarification. Was this a PSA? I thought it was.
Just like claiming a "summit" is far more nuanced than it seems; claiming a "ski descent" is the same way. They both have very strict, and vague definitions too. Of which, NOONE can agree, but some argue about.
Silly checklisters.

If people are serious about eventually finishing the list, yeah the little nuances absolutely do count. They WILL be called out, that was made clear in the very beginning.
Yes, I know who you are, we have spoken before. I have read every response in this thread, including yours. Your posts have been dripping with sarcasm and venom (knife sharpening, head chopping, snarky 50 Shades references, "sarcastic quotes", talking down to people, among other things), which doesn't sound like praying [-o< nor worshipping/begging :bow: to learn. They have all read, to me, like you're going out of your way to deliberately misunderstand "do your best to ski as continuous a line as possible from the summit" in an attempt to invalidate any guidelines Otina or anyone else might provide.

But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. You seem smart, from what I can tell, and definitely passionate, and I think you're vastly overthinking this dilemma. You don't need to think that hard to figure out that the number of inches of snow in an average snow year is irrelevant, or that it's not possible to ski a truly continuous line down Wetterhorn, or down Sneffels' Snake couloir, and that not carrying your skis to the summit and then beginning your ski 500 feet below the summit is not a summit ski. Caveats can be made for umpteen million edge cases. You pointing out that there are edge cases is not a gotcha and you're being far too literal. I'd like to think you know that you're being deliberately obtuse, because you're clearly an intelligent person, so how about instead of asking for guidelines and then going "no, not those ones!" when you know damn well that there aren't guidelines as specific as you want them to be, you just realize that a certain level of reasonableness, context, and nuance is required to figure things out.
Last edited by supranihilest on Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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