Skis...Twin Tips?

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Re: Skis...Twin Tips?

Postby Endeavor54 » Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:04 pm

K2 PE's Rule =D> I got a set at the end of the ski season last year. Put a couple of days on them and then skied the Angel of Shavano. I was able to cut runs that I would struggle on in my Fisher RX9's. (more like rag doll down) They transition well from powder to crud to bumps to groomed. You can carve some nice GS turns on the steep groomers at speed. I am looking to get a set of K2 Piste Pipe; the tele version of the PE and put my AT bindings on them. All I will need is some fat skins. If you can find some place to demo a set, you will love them.
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Re: Skis...Twin Tips?

Postby Bean » Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:41 pm

Endeavor54 wrote:I am looking to get a set of K2 Piste Pipe; the tele version of the PE and put my AT bindings on them. All I will need is some fat skins. If you can find some place to demo a set, you will love them.

The only purpose of the K2 tele line is the insers for tele binders. Get regular PEs and put AT bindings.

And don't call 85mm fat. 100+ is fat.
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Re: Skis...Twin Tips?

Postby GravityPilot » Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:25 pm

If you can't build multiple anchors out of a twin tip ski then you shouldn't be doing any ski mountaineering that requires a ski anchor. That's final, no arguments, you adapt.
I ski mountaineered on Salomon Guns for two years and Pocket Rockets before that. The Foils are pretty much skinnier versions of the old Guns.
K2s are great skis. The Karmas are great but expensive. Me personally, I'd go with Karmas over PEs only because I've had a better time on Karmas. They're stiff in the right places for how I ski. But remember, the time I've spent is my own, just like everyone else here. If you're super concerned about it go demo stuff. There's no shame in it. It all pays off in the long run.
Lastly, the ski doesn't make the skier, the skier makes the ski. You can learn to rip on ALMOST anything given the time and motivation. I don't ski on anything over 100mm at the waste because we live in Colorado (which equals shallow snow pack) and I like to feel the powder not float on the very top of it, where as some of my partners ski on Gotamas and skis like it. That's their thing. So go try stuff out before anything. Hit up some demo days. Then go make an unbiased decision.
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Re: Skis...Twin Tips?

Postby lobo » Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:32 pm

Last season I demoed about every mid-fat twin tip I could find and I went with the Volkl Karma's. I hated the K2 PE's. I thought they were too soft and didn't carve well on groomed plus at speed they were unstable. The Mojo 90's were OK but I didn't like them at speed either, better than the PE though. The Dynastar Big Trouble was good It cut through crud and edged pretty good too. I tried the 1080 guns and they were too soft and unstable at speed too. The Karma's though just stood out above all the others for me. I love them in the trees and in bumps. The very first day I skied on the ones I bought was at the Talons Challenge at BC and they were great. On steep groomers I have yet to find a speed limit on them and get very little chatter from them. While I ski mostly at the resorts they have enough float to keep my 250 lb but up and going with out having to work at it too much. I loved the Volkl Gotama's in powder but were too slow edge to edge for my skiing style. Just my 2 cents go demo everything you can before you buy.
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Re: Skis...Twin Tips?

Postby Couloirman » Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:51 pm

GravityPilot wrote:If you can't build multiple anchors out of a twin tip ski then you shouldn't be doing any ski mountaineering that requires a ski anchor. That's final, no arguments, you adapt.

For sure man, no arguments there, all I was saying is straight tail is more versatile, not that it cant be done with twins, and that the easiest anchors I have ever made were on straight tailed skis that involved not much more than shoving them as far as possible into the snow in various configurations and tying off of them with a buddy in a seated belay above. That has been the fastest method I have seen and when I am tired after a hard day of climbing, I like anchors that are both quick to assemble and disassemble. I am sure someone can do other anchors more securely and in less time than I can on skis that are twin tipped. Twin tips are fine and I have used them for these purposes on many occasions, they are just not quite as versatile IMVHO...
Last edited by Couloirman on Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Skis...Twin Tips?

Postby Carl » Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:33 pm

A friend I skied with today has the Head Mojo 90's and loves them. I've seen some issues with Head durability so have stayed away. I think the first response nailed it - the Volkl Karma is a sweet ski. I saw the 06/07 at ski and golf last week for $399.

I picked up the Movement Kamasutra a couple months ago and have about 25 days on them, so far so good. 88mm stiff twin tip. Very similar to the Volkl Karma.
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Re: Skis...Twin Tips?

Postby fiveminutelifetime » Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:49 am

Well, I own and love some K2 PEs, so I might as well write up a review.

Now I have the 2005 model in 179cm length. Now, I don't really have anything to base this on, but to me it seems that the 2007s seem a bit lighter and less rigid than the older models of the PE.

You mentioned "all mountain"... does this mean "all mountain resort" or "all mountain backcountry". Because while I would recommend the PEs for resort skiing (although there might be better choices, depending on what you like to do), I wouldn't recommend them for backcountry, for a few reasons.

First of all, they are quite heavy for touring, somewhere in the neighborhood of ten pounds a ski, without bindings. The other factor, which may also apply to resort skiing, is that at 85mm underfoot, they are simply too narrow for very deep powder. I'm 5' 10" 185 lbs and if the pow is much deeper than my thighs, it's quite a bit of work to float through the snow.

However, I find that they perform very well inbounds. The same weighty and burly construction that makes the skis heavy also makes them very stable. I was surprised by Lobo's post that he found the PEs unstable until i read that he's 250lbs, which might make them unstable with such a heavy weight (no offense Lobo). Personally, I think these skis are frikkin' bomber; I've never had any chatter on hardpack, and I've probably gone ~70mph on wide open cruisers. The PEs are great at busting through chopped up snow, spring slush, and on top of sastrugi.

The edging/turning seems to be a love it or hate it issue. While the PEs are intended for medium length turns (with a sidecut of 20m), the twin-tip construction makes the skis tend to want to skid (or side-slide or whatever you want to call it) like a snowboard when you turn. I find this very helpful for quickly ditching speed on hardpack without maneuvering outside the fall line. The other thing I notice about turning on these skis is that they are very precise and sensitive, so you need to be paying attention to your gravity and kinetics otherwise you might find yourself skidding or skiing switch (on hardpack). I like this response from the skis, as I can make precise turns with very slight body adjustment. In powder, the skis remain very responsive, what some might call "hooky". I ski the trees primarily, so I actually like the quick turning abilities that the PEs provide.

Plus, with the twinnies, you can always go get "mad sick" in the park, "daaaawg" :mrgreen:

If you're looking for a more powder-specific ski, I've read good reviews about the Dynastar Pro XXL and Volkl Gotama. I suppose it all depends on what you like to ski.
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Re: Skis...Twin Tips?

Postby 14ers4me » Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:53 am

Thanks for all the input guys. If i can find some 06/07 Karmas, that are still new, i will probably go with them. I cant afford the latest ones but the year old model i can probably handle.
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