Snow!

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Scott P
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Re: Snow!

Post by Scott P »

DArcyS wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 1:30 pmAny opinions or recollection of snow the last two weeks of July?
Democrat, Bross, Quandary, and the nearby 13ers (I can't see Lincoln but surely it is to) are covered with a dusting of snow. Strangley Sherman doesn't seem dusted.

It is 42 degrees at 10,000 feet at the cabin I am in so it's just rain here, but snow level is probably 12,500-13,000 feet.

It isn't quite the last two weeks of July, but it is dang close.
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DArcyS
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Re: Snow!

Post by DArcyS »

Scott P wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:35 pm
DArcyS wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 1:30 pmAny opinions or recollection of snow the last two weeks of July?
Democrat, Bross, Quandary, and the nearby 13ers (I can't see Lincoln but surely it is to) are covered with a dusting of snow. Strangley Sherman doesn't seem dusted.

It is 42 degrees at 10,000 feet at the cabin I am in so it's just rain here, but snow level is probably 12,500-13,000 feet.

It isn't quite the last two weeks of July, but it is dang close.
Yup, dang close. And thanks for digging into those stats, kind of interesting.

Initially I was wondering about snow in relation to the monsoon. If there's a strong monsoon flow, I would "guess" the odds for snow go down, since snow in the summer probably requires a strong cold front from the north. But how does the monsoon interact with northerly fronts? I don't know, I'm not a meteorologist, I don't have access to past weather data, so I can really only "guess." :)
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Re: Snow!

Post by peter303 »

36 degrees in Leadville Thursday morning.
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Re: Snow!

Post by Scott P »

DArcyS wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:48 pm If there's a strong monsoon flow, I would "guess" the odds for snow go down, since snow in the summer probably requires a strong cold front from the north.
Not really. A cold front is required for the bigger summer snowstorms, but monsoon moisture brings plenty of dustings. It's often cold enough to snow on the 14ers during monsoon periods. Pikes Peak, for example has an average high of only 48 in July and an average low of 34. Longs Peak (for example) is estimated to be at least 2 degrees colder, making the average high and low 46 and 32. It doesn't have to be much cooler than average to snow (and it can snow with temperatures anywhere in the 30's or even higher).

Anyway, for anyone interested, here is the biggest July snow total I can find for anywhere in Colorado:
snowfall.PNG
snowfall.PNG (89.87 KiB) Viewed 1581 times
Supposedly 28.0 inches of snow fell in the Leadville area in July 1901. Unfortunately there weren't many weather stations in the high mountain valleys during that time period so it's hard to collaborate with other stations. If that snowfall really did happen, it must have snowed quite a bit on the high peaks since the weather station is only at 9870 feet elevation. 28 inches does seem a bit suspicious, but that's what's in the weather records.

The 1800's and early 1900's did have quite a few freak snowfall events though.

In July 1902 it snowed even in some of the desert regions of Utah and Nevada. Eureka Nevada isn't quite in the desert, but is only at 6400 feet elevation. 5 inches of snow fell there during the July snowstorm. Tropic Utah, near Escalante and named for its mild weather recorded 17 degrees. Loa Utah recorded 19 degrees.

In July 1861, a group of soldiers were caught at Soldier Summit Utah (elevation 7450) feet and several were killed in the blizzard. That's how the location got its name.

On July 17 1972 snow was reported in Denver:

https://denver.cbslocal.com/2015/07/17/ ... r-in-july/
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DArcyS
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Re: Snow!

Post by DArcyS »

Scott P wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:51 am Not really. A cold front is required for the bigger summer snowstorms, but monsoon moisture brings plenty of dustings.
Monsoon moisture originates from the Gulf, and you think a southerly flow in the middle of summer can lead to snow?
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Re: Snow!

Post by randalmartin »

DArcyS wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:45 am
Scott P wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:51 am Not really. A cold front is required for the bigger summer snowstorms, but monsoon moisture brings plenty of dustings.
Monsoon moisture originates from the Gulf, and you think a southerly flow in the middle of summer can lead to snow?
Actually monsoon flow is more from the Baja region, not the Gulf of Mexico which is why monsoon always tends to start in Arizona and make it's way through the San Juans and into the rest of Colorado. It is of course possible to have moisture come in from one direction and meet a cold front descending from the north.
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Re: Snow!

Post by DArcyS »

randalmartin wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:04 pm
DArcyS wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:45 am
Scott P wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:51 am Not really. A cold front is required for the bigger summer snowstorms, but monsoon moisture brings plenty of dustings.
Monsoon moisture originates from the Gulf, and you think a southerly flow in the middle of summer can lead to snow?
Actually monsoon flow is more from the Baja region, not the Gulf of Mexico which is why monsoon always tends to start in Arizona and make it's way through the San Juans and into the rest of Colorado. It is of course possible to have moisture come in from one direction and meet a cold front descending from the north.
Okay, and right, and that's about the only way it could snow. I was originally wondering if the southern flow was so strong in late July that it effectively blocked northern fronts. I suppose one should never say never when it comes to the weather (although snow in July in Denver is pretty dang close).
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Re: Snow!

Post by Scott P »

DArcyS wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:45 am you think a southerly flow in the middle of summer can lead to snow?
HIgh in the mountains, yes. And it happens frequently. As mentioned earlier, Pikes Peak has an average of 7 days where it snows in July and 9 days where is snows in August. Cold fronts don't occur seven days a month in July and nine days a month in August. Most of that is monsoon moisture from a southerly flow.

The average temperature on Pikes Peak (one of the warmest 14ers) is the same in July as it is on November 10 in Denver. On Longs Peak, the July average is the same as the average temperature in Denver on November 19. Can it snow in Denver with a southerly flow November 10-19? I would guess that it can.

Another way to look at it is in July the temperatures average 34-36 degrees colder on the 14ers that in Denver. For simplicity sake let's just say 35 degrees colder.

Also for simplicity sake let's say it has to be 35 degrees to snow (snow at 35 degrees is common).

With a southerly monsoon flow can it drop to 70 degrees in Denver during a July thunderstorm? Of course it can. Dropping to 70 during a thunderstorm in July probably wouldn't be any more unusual than dropping to 35 during a July thunderstorm on a 13er.
Last edited by Scott P on Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Snow!

Post by DArcyS »

Scott P wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 6:37 pm Can it snow in Denver with a southerly flow November 10-19? I would guess that it can.
Yeah, whatever.
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Re: Snow!

Post by Scott P »

DArcyS wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:03 pm
Scott P wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 6:37 pm Can it snow in Denver with a southerly flow November 10-19? I would guess that it can.
Yeah, whatever.
I added more after you posted. Can it drop to 70 degrees during a monsoon thunderstorm in Denver? If so it could snow on a 14er, since July temperatures average 35 degrees colder up there.
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Re: Snow!

Post by DArcyS »

Scott P wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:07 pm I added more after you posted.
I don't care.
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Re: Snow!

Post by Scott P »

DArcyS wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:39 pm
Scott P wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:07 pm I added more after you posted.
I don't care.
I see. I only posted because you asked and I thought you were interested. Carry on. :thumbup:
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