Should I hire a guide for Jagged and/or Vestal?

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hellmanm
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Should I hire a guide for Jagged and/or Vestal?

Post by hellmanm »

I'm curious whether y'all think it's worth it. I've done my fair share of scrambling, but I don't currently have the technical rope skill (or gear) required to safely go up*. Ideally, this would be a way to go beyond my normal comfort zone without having to spend years learning all the intricacies of technical climbing. I also figure that the $$ required to get+learn to properly use a trad rack will probably rival the cost of a guide anyway.

If this does sound like a good idea, anyone have any guiding outfits that they recommend? I was looking at San Juan mtn guides but am open to any suggestions. Partners are welcome too if anyone wants in -- ideally, we'd get a few climbs in beforehand though (I'm planning to do the guided trip on Labor Day weekend). I'd want to hire a guide for the technical portion, then stay up there for an extra day or two for some (non-guided) scrambling -- Arrow/Trinities if in Vestal Basin, Knife Pt/Leviathan/Vallecito/maybe others if in Noname Basin.

*I know that Vestal can be done at class 3, but I'm primarily interested in ascending via Wham Ridge.
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smrcka
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Re: Should I hire a guide for Jagged and/or Vestal?

Post by smrcka »

I’m in the same boat. I opted to climb Vestal from the backside on the class 3, but need support and a partner to do Jagged. I’ve had several unpleasant experiences with new climbing partners, so I felt there was no other safe option than hiring a guide. I booked a trip with SJMG and will be headed into the Weminuche on Tuesday the 29th. Yes it’s expensive, but when I thought about all the money I’ve spent over the years pursuing the Centennials, it was easier to accept. Should be back out in civilization on Friday the 2nd and I’ll update at that time.
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Re: Should I hire a guide for Jagged and/or Vestal?

Post by angry »

Hey Mike,
You don't need a trad rack for either of those peaks (unless you are doing Center Shift on Vestal) and you'd only need a rope for the rappel on Jagged.
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Re: Should I hire a guide for Jagged and/or Vestal?

Post by tmud »

Would def recommend having roped climbing experience and comfort with exposed scrambling before doing jagged. Route finding isn't exactly straight forward either, so pair that with your risk tolerance and confidence on this type of terrain and then hire a guide.
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Re: Should I hire a guide for Jagged and/or Vestal?

Post by jscully205 »

If you're looking to just climb the peaks efficiently, you really don't need a rope or pro on either if you consider yourself a decent scrambler.

On Vestal, if you stay close to the ridge and off the face, you avoid most of the hard climbing and it goes at class 4. Maybe one or two low 5th moves but nothing sustained.

Jagged is very ledgy and there are few, what I call 5.2 moves. It had a similar feel to Sunlight Peak with slightly harder climbing. You can down-climb these or rappel off if you wish. It just seemed like a long way to haul in a rope for that. Down-climbing would be quicker.

Now if your intention is to learn some new skills along the way and or are having trouble finding a partner, then I think hiring a guide is good choice.
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Re: Should I hire a guide for Jagged and/or Vestal?

Post by SnowAlien »

jscully205 wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:44 am If you're looking to just climb the peaks efficiently, you really don't need a rope or pro on either if you consider yourself a decent scrambler.
That's a really bad advice. I've done Vestal 3x and Jagged 2x and will definitely recommend a rope for a new climber. I've seen a seasoned climber with hundred of peaks under his belt really struggle on Wham even on class 4 sections and needed to be roped up. Exposure is no joke and it's relentless.
Go climb Breezy 5.5 in Eldorado canyon and see if you want to solo that at 13,000+ ft with a pack and very tired.

Jagged is not as sustained, but there are some hard moves where a slip will be fatal. Also be very careful on the back side, which is typically not protected, but still a very high consequence terrain. And I was 100% happy to have 2x30 m ropes for the raps instead of downclimbing dripping wet slabs.
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Re: Should I hire a guide for Jagged and/or Vestal?

Post by angry »

jscully205 wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:44 am It just seemed like a long way to haul in a rope for that. Down-climbing would be quicker.
Did you not take a rope to rappel when you did it with tsmart and nanney?
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Re: Should I hire a guide for Jagged and/or Vestal?

Post by jscully205 »

angry wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:34 am
jscully205 wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:44 am It just seemed like a long way to haul in a rope for that. Down-climbing would be quicker.
Did you not take a rope to rappel when you did it with tsmart and nanney?
Yeah, we took a 60m half rope and used it to rappel; this is only because we had it and felt like we might as well use it. In hindsight, I would have traded off not taking a rope for faster speed of movement.
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Re: Should I hire a guide for Jagged and/or Vestal?

Post by Jon Frohlich »

I know someone that is a very reliable and trustworthy guide if you need one for either of these peaks. She's guided on both a number of times. PM for the info if you want it.

If you feel more comfortable with a rope and a guide don't let people talk you out of it. These are high consequence climbs.
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Re: Should I hire a guide for Jagged and/or Vestal?

Post by TomPierce »

I think I'm an OK scrambler and I took a rope for the rappels on Jagged, which I climbed alone fwiw. Could I have downclimbed it without a rope? Absolutely. But it's a style issue to me, not an issue of ability. I think that if you want to climb a long time and die peacefully in your sleep, you learn to pluck the low hanging climbing safety fruit, i.e. reasonably reduce your risk of injury when it's easy to do so. I was alone, miles from nowhere, and even a short fall could've resulted in a sprain or break. What then? Or if the weather fell apart? Downclimbing wet rock? I've done it many times but would prefer to descend on a rope over wet 4th/5th class terrain, esp in a storm.

Live to climb another day. Everyone is immortal in the mountains, until they're not. Just my opinions.

-Tom

PS: OP, if you don't feel solid for the climb and you don't have competent partners who could lead and/or rig a rappel, get a guide. Jagged isn't really all that hard as 5th class peaks go, but people have run into problems on it. Have a great climb!
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Re: Should I hire a guide for Jagged and/or Vestal?

Post by angry »

TomPierce wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:56 am Could I have downclimbed it without a rope? Absolutely. But it's a style issue to me, not an issue of ability.
Agreed. We had snow on the route when I went and only used the rope for the rap. The rappel is always the fun part in my opinion and in most cases, usually faster than downclimbing.
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Re: Should I hire a guide for Jagged and/or Vestal?

Post by hellmanm »

jscully205 wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:44 am If you're looking to just climb the peaks efficiently, you really don't need a rope or pro on either if you consider yourself a decent scrambler.
Hmm, I mean I think I'm okayish, but I don't think I'd feel comfortable without protection. I've had some varied experiences with harder unroped scrambling. For example: I didn't find anything on Pyramid or the S Ridge of Snowmass to be an issue, but I did struggle trying to downclimb the chimney on N. Maroon. I turned around in the hourglass (Little Bear) due to running water too -- but with better conditions would have felt comfortable. Part of why I was thinking about getting a guide is because of the multitude of variables that can affect something like this. Like, I probably have the skill to do it, but wet ledges, fatigue, gigantic exposure...etc could affect how it goes.

It's also about whether it's wiser to build up more skill/experience over a few years vs relying on someone else to help me out there. I understand that it's a guide's job to help, but I haven't really felt like a liability on a lot of climbs before. I wonder if it would be wrong to go for something that is just a little beyond my level without a pro. Either way, thanks all for the advice so far. Lots to think about. Keep it coming!
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