In the real world, I did spend some time studying the efficiencies of respirators at a uranium processing facility.crossfitter wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 1:16 pm As an ex academic, I can attest that academia is full of people who are shockingly less intellectually developed than the plebs of society would like to believe.
Masks in the Mountains
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Re: Masks in the Mountains
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the women 'round here start looking good"
the women 'round here start looking good"
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Re: Masks in the Mountains
I'm going to go out on a wild limb and speculate that you didn't suggest they were good to go with a surgical mask or a buff, did you?rijaca wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 1:24 pmIn the real world, I did spend some time studying the efficiencies of respirators at a uranium processing facility.crossfitter wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 1:16 pm As an ex academic, I can attest that academia is full of people who are shockingly less intellectually developed than the plebs of society would like to believe.
- A mountain is not a checkbox to be ticked
- Alpinism and mountaineering are not restricted to 14,000 foot mountains
- Judgment and experience are the two most important pieces of gear you own
- Being honest to yourself and others about your abilities is a characteristic of experienced climbers
- Courage cannot be bought at REI or carried with you in your rucksack
- Alpinism and mountaineering are not restricted to 14,000 foot mountains
- Judgment and experience are the two most important pieces of gear you own
- Being honest to yourself and others about your abilities is a characteristic of experienced climbers
- Courage cannot be bought at REI or carried with you in your rucksack
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Re: Masks in the Mountains
You're an ex academic and you don't understand why scientific papers are written in ways that avoid making definitive statements?crossfitter wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 1:16 pm
Notice the specific language that these authors use: "is likely" "may not". These are weasel words used to arrive at a conclusion that was never actually tested or measured by the paper. The only thing this paper actually shows is that there are [much] fewer water droplets transmitted on inhalation through an N95 style mask than a cloth mask. There isn't even a control group to compare the homemade masks to baseline. It doesn't say anything about the actual transmissibility of droplets vs aerosols or what the exposure threshold is. Attempting to abstract these results to impacts on infectivity is pure speculation and abstraction, and outside the bounds of this study.
If you have ever spent any time reading academic literature, you will often notice a trend that the conclusions of the author do not follow from the methodology and data that they provide. You can only realize this by applying your own critical analysis to the paper, and not simply parroting what the author concludes absent of your own thoughts and critiques. As an ex academic, I can attest that academia is full of people who are shockingly less intellectually developed than the plebs of society would like to believe.
Either you were a s**t academic, or you didn't pay attention in stats... or at all during your training. Hypothesis testing returns probabilities that support or refute a hypotheses, not binary conclusions. Any scientific paper that doesn't use those "weasel words" gets rejected during review for drawing conclusions the data and analyses don't support, because they are literally incapable of it.
For all of the self-back-patting you do, you don't have the slightest clue of what you're talking about.
Make wilderness less accessible.
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Re: Masks in the Mountains
Notice that whenever we have these threads, I post arguments and you attack me personally. Says a lot about which of us has the better argument. Especially when you consider what happened in this thread the one and only time you attempted to submit an argument that wasn't an ad-hominem attack. Do better, Dr. ScienceGodKing.Dave B wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 1:37 pm
You're an ex academic and you don't understand why scientific papers are written in ways that avoid making definitive statements?
Either you were a s**t academic, or you didn't pay attention in stats... or at all during your training. Hypothesis testing returns probabilities that support or refute a hypotheses, not binary conclusions. Any scientific paper that doesn't use those "weasel words" gets rejected during review for drawing conclusions the data and analyses don't support, because they are literally incapable of it.
For all of the self-back-patting you do, you don't have the slightest clue of what you're talking about.
Speaking of hypothesis, check out mask compliance vs cases in the united states. I bet you that 3 months from now, cases are going to be lower. If masks are so important and seasonality doesn't matter, surely you'd be willing to take the counter hypothesis. Care to bet on it?
- A mountain is not a checkbox to be ticked
- Alpinism and mountaineering are not restricted to 14,000 foot mountains
- Judgment and experience are the two most important pieces of gear you own
- Being honest to yourself and others about your abilities is a characteristic of experienced climbers
- Courage cannot be bought at REI or carried with you in your rucksack
- Alpinism and mountaineering are not restricted to 14,000 foot mountains
- Judgment and experience are the two most important pieces of gear you own
- Being honest to yourself and others about your abilities is a characteristic of experienced climbers
- Courage cannot be bought at REI or carried with you in your rucksack
Re: Masks in the Mountains
If this was the way I proposed to test my hypotheses, I would be an ex-academic too.crossfitter wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 1:43 pm Speaking of hypothesis, check out mask compliance vs cases in the united states. I bet you that 3 months from now, cases are going to be lower. If masks are so important and seasonality doesn't matter, surely you'd be willing to take the counter hypothesis. Care to bet on it?
Last edited by mtnkub on Tue May 11, 2021 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Masks in the Mountains
Sorry, can't help myself, your special brand of obnoxious arrogance grates my nerves, especially when you grandstand like you know what you're talking about but clearly don't. It's a pet-peeve of mine.crossfitter wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 1:43 pmNotice that whenever we have these threads, I post arguments and you attack me personally. Says a lot about which of us has the better argument. Especially when you consider what happened in this thread the one and only time you attempted to submit an argument that wasn't an ad-hominem attack. Do better, Dr. ScienceGodKing.Dave B wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 1:37 pm
You're an ex academic and you don't understand why scientific papers are written in ways that avoid making definitive statements?
Either you were a s**t academic, or you didn't pay attention in stats... or at all during your training. Hypothesis testing returns probabilities that support or refute a hypotheses, not binary conclusions. Any scientific paper that doesn't use those "weasel words" gets rejected during review for drawing conclusions the data and analyses don't support, because they are literally incapable of it.
For all of the self-back-patting you do, you don't have the slightest clue of what you're talking about.
Speaking of hypothesis, check out mask compliance vs cases in the united states. I bet you that 3 months from now, cases are going to be lower. If masks are so important and seasonality doesn't matter, surely you'd be willing to take the counter hypothesis. Care to bet on it?
I'm not going to respond to anymore of your libertarian blog graphs. If you can pull together data from the US or the globe, defend an unbiased sampling strategy, control for confounding factors (population age, health, access to health care, existing healthcare infrastructure, testing, contact-tracing, cultural norms, mask compliance, etc) and show a clear difference in areas that were heavily mask mandated versus those that weren't, I'll happily concede that you're right.
I'm pretty good with statistics and population modeling, so let me know if you need any help with getting the models setup.
Last edited by Dave B on Tue May 11, 2021 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Masks in the Mountains
Raw data put on a timeline is libertarian. lol
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Re: Masks in the Mountains
If you want to complain about obnoxious arrogance, you really ought to look in a mirror. You're always the first one to make things personal and act like you are the sole science god on this forum.
Can you provide anything remotely close to what you are demanding from me? By all means, demonstrate where I am wrong. Telling me that I am wrong and stupid because I won't parrot the party line, while contributing no independent thought of your own isn't gonna cut it.
I notice that you declined to take my bet. Guessing that means you aren't nearly as confident in your hypothesis as you act.
Last edited by crossfitter on Tue May 11, 2021 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- A mountain is not a checkbox to be ticked
- Alpinism and mountaineering are not restricted to 14,000 foot mountains
- Judgment and experience are the two most important pieces of gear you own
- Being honest to yourself and others about your abilities is a characteristic of experienced climbers
- Courage cannot be bought at REI or carried with you in your rucksack
- Alpinism and mountaineering are not restricted to 14,000 foot mountains
- Judgment and experience are the two most important pieces of gear you own
- Being honest to yourself and others about your abilities is a characteristic of experienced climbers
- Courage cannot be bought at REI or carried with you in your rucksack
Re: Masks in the Mountains
There once was a time when Dave B and a few others patiently pointed out specific errors and fallacies in your interpretation of data. Instead of attempting to refute these points, you instead came up with new mislead/misleading graphs. Throw enough bullsh*t at a wall, and some will stick. But it will still be bullsh*t.crossfitter wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 1:43 pm Notice that whenever we have these threads, I post arguments and you attack me personally. Says a lot about which of us has the better argument. Especially when you consider what happened in this thread the one and only time you attempted to submit an argument that wasn't an ad-hominem attack. Do better, Dr. ScienceGodKing.
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Re: Masks in the Mountains
No, what happened is that I inferred these trends early on and posted that and got smited by the branch covidians for heresy. Now a year later, I have a complete data set to beat you over the head with, and you all cry foul because you can't stand to admit that you have been wrong this entire time. You'd think a year into this you guys would have something to prove your point, but you are still clinging to studies with a doll and a spritz bottle, while hanging onto every world that Dr. Fauci says. You know, the same guy that is fully vaccinated and double masks in a room with other fully vaccinated people, because Science.mtnkub wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 2:04 pm There once was a time when Dave B and a few others patiently pointed out specific errors and fallacies in your interpretation of data. Instead of attempting to refute these points, you instead came up with new mislead/misleading graphs. Throw enough bullsh*t at a wall, and some will stick. But it will still be bullsh*t.
Last edited by crossfitter on Tue May 11, 2021 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- A mountain is not a checkbox to be ticked
- Alpinism and mountaineering are not restricted to 14,000 foot mountains
- Judgment and experience are the two most important pieces of gear you own
- Being honest to yourself and others about your abilities is a characteristic of experienced climbers
- Courage cannot be bought at REI or carried with you in your rucksack
- Alpinism and mountaineering are not restricted to 14,000 foot mountains
- Judgment and experience are the two most important pieces of gear you own
- Being honest to yourself and others about your abilities is a characteristic of experienced climbers
- Courage cannot be bought at REI or carried with you in your rucksack
- Dave B
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- Joined: 6/14/2010
- Trip Reports (9)
Re: Masks in the Mountains
You're god dammed right I'm arrogant, at least I know what I'm talking about.crossfitter wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 1:59 pmIf you want to complain about obnoxious arrogance, you really ought to look in a mirror. You're always the first one to make things personal and act like you are the sole science god on this forum.
Can you provide anything remotely close to what you are demanding from me? By all means, demonstrate where I am wrong. Telling me that I am wrong and stupid because I won't parrot the party line, while contributing no independent thought of your own isn't gonna cut it.
I notice that you declined to take my bet. Guessing that means you aren't nearly as confident in your hypothesis as you act.
And, your bet was stupid and impossible to interpret. If you can reframe it in a logical fashion that is falsifiable I'll reconsider.
Last edited by Dave B on Tue May 11, 2021 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Masks in the Mountains
Find this on a person's profile, click it, confirm, and move on. Life is too short for pointless internet arguments.