Masks in the Mountains

Colorado peak questions, condition requests and other info.
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Will you wear a mask on your next 14er ascent?

Yes. I will wear 2 masks until told otherwise.
3
2%
Yes. My mask shows that I care for your health.
13
8%
Yes. I don't know up from down, but it is important to signal virtue.
3
2%
Maybe, depends on what the person in front of me is doing.
14
8%
No. My face is too pretty to hide.
12
7%
No. The mask thing is so 2020.
6
3%
No. I read the science and masks outside are absurd.
111
64%
No. I voted for Trump and I don't think he would approve.
11
6%
 
Total votes: 173
ker0uac
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Re: Masks in the Mountains

Post by ker0uac »

supranihilest wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:58 am
ker0uac wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:48 amIsn't it curious that the media and government are not focusing on therapeutics for covid?
Isn't it curious that the media and government are not focused on therapeutics for smallpox, polio, measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox, HPV, etc.?

Wait, not it's not, because achieving herd immunity through vaccination is better than endlessly treating outbreaks with therapeutics. :roll:
Those diseases impact everyone equally. Have you heard of people contracting smallpox and not displaying symptoms at all? Everyone is technically at risk for polio, regardless of age or health status. The same isn't true for covid. Or shingles, whose vaccine isn't recommended for those younger than 50 since they can usually fight it off easily. Same with HPV, isn't very common among men and doesn't usually lead to serious problems.

According to experts, including Fauci, this virus is unlikely to go away. We will never have complete herd immunity coz the immunity given by the vaccine is temporary as we know today. So unless we manage to keep forcing people, regardless of age and health status to forever get boosters, herd immunity is unlikely. For instance, how many people get Tetanus booster every 10years? Similar to covid, young and healthy people can fight it off, but others can't.
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Re: Masks in the Mountains

Post by supranihilest »

ker0uac wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 10:14 am
supranihilest wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:58 am
ker0uac wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:48 amIsn't it curious that the media and government are not focusing on therapeutics for covid?
Isn't it curious that the media and government are not focused on therapeutics for smallpox, polio, measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox, HPV, etc.?

Wait, not it's not, because achieving herd immunity through vaccination is better than endlessly treating outbreaks with therapeutics. :roll:
Those diseases impact everyone equally. Have you heard of people contracting smallpox and not displaying symptoms at all? Everyone is technically at risk for polio, regardless of age or health status. The same isn't true for covid. Or shingles, whose vaccine isn't recommended for those younger than 50 since they can usually fight it off easily. Same with HPV, isn't very common among men and doesn't usually lead to serious problems.

According to experts, including Fauci, this virus is unlikely to go away. We will never have complete herd immunity coz the immunity given by the vaccine is temporary as we know today. So unless we manage to keep forcing people, regardless of age and health status to forever get boosters, herd immunity is unlikely. For instance, how many people get Tetanus booster every 10years? Similar to covid, young and healthy people can fight it off, but others can't.
Are you suggesting that we therefore not try to vaccinate against COVID? Just want to clarify your position. There's room for vaccines and therapy in my non-doctor's opinion. I also want to point out that we still deal with measels and mumps, among other diseases, because vaccination rates have waned. Those viruses, like COVID, have not gone away, yet we don't throw our hands up in the air and say "well they'll be here forever so focus on therapy instead of vaccination".
Same with HPV, isn't very common among men and doesn't usually lead to serious problems.
Women have a greater rate of cancer from HPV than men do, but men also have serious issues with HPV-caused cancers, largely throat cancer. More than 40% of HPV-caused cancers are in men. Men should take HPV seriously. https://www.cdc.gov/hpv/parents/cancer.html
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Re: Masks in the Mountains

Post by crossfitter »

The vaccines work, once you get it, the disease becomes a non-issue. It's none of your business or problem whether other people do or don't get the vaccine. The virus will be circulating for years, and probably forever.

The pandemic could be over today, but we have collectively lost our minds and demand zero covid and zero risk without considering any of the inherent risks that come as part of keeping pandemic hysteria going.

Like I said previously, it's 9/11 for germs. If you enjoyed the 20+ year war on terror, you're gonna LOVE the 20+ year war on germs that's already started. I bet 5-10 years you won't be able to find a soul that will admit to being in favor of lockdowns and totalitarianism.

Raise your hand if you were in the "Invading Iraq is a stupid f***ing idea" club before it was cool.
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- Judgment and experience are the two most important pieces of gear you own
- Being honest to yourself and others about your abilities is a characteristic of experienced climbers
- Courage cannot be bought at REI or carried with you in your rucksack

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Re: Masks in the Mountains

Post by supranihilest »

crossfitter wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 10:35 am The vaccines work, once you get it, the disease becomes a non-issue. [emphasis mine]
Nope. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... o%20others.

I will note that the very next sentence says
However, the benefits of relaxing some measures such as testing and self-quarantine requirements for travelers, post-exposure quarantine requirements and reducing social isolation may outweigh the residual risk of fully vaccinated people becoming ill with COVID-19 or transmitting the virus to others. [emphasis mine]
No, those two thoughts are not contradictory. It says some, not all.
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Re: Masks in the Mountains

Post by TomPierce »

crossfitter wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 10:35 am Raise your hand if you were in the "Invading Iraq is a stupid f***ing idea" club before it was cool.
Hand raised, charter member of that club from Day 1, fwiw.

-Tom
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Re: Masks in the Mountains

Post by supranihilest »

A few posts ago you said
crossfitter wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 9:27 amNone of this bulls**t matters, the virus does what it's going to do.
Now you say
crossfitter wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 10:35 amThe pandemic could be over today
So which is it, the pandemic could be over or it's not? When is it over? When we say it's over?

Image

Are you suggesting that we somehow made it worse by not ignoring it?
crossfitter wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 10:35 amRaise your hand if you were in the "Invading Iraq is a stupid f***ing idea" club before it was cool.
Also me, even though I was in middle school, I think. Mostly I don't like war, I'm not sure I could have formed a real, informed position on the Iraq war at the tender age of something-teen.

But seriously, imagine trying to conflate a war against an idea (terrorism) against a pandemic response. But wait, the virus does what it's going to do so we should do nothing, can I also apply your logic and say terrorists are going to do what they do so we should do nothing? :-k
Last edited by supranihilest on Thu May 13, 2021 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Masks in the Mountains

Post by Rollie Free »

SkaredShtles wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:31 am
BillMiddlebrook wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:11 am
crossfitter wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 8:41 amThe only reason the CDC isn't telling fully vaccinated people to return to life as normal is because they are committed to engage in social engineering.
I'm shocked you believe this. Wow
I'm shocked you're shocked. CF is a moran. :mrgreen:
Ewww, never call someone a moron but if you do don't misspell it. (;
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Re: Masks in the Mountains

Post by crossfitter »

supranihilest wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 10:37 am
crossfitter wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 10:35 am The vaccines work, once you get it, the disease becomes a non-issue. [emphasis mine]
Nope. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... o%20others.

I will note that the very next sentence says
However, the benefits of relaxing some measures such as testing and self-quarantine requirements for travelers, post-exposure quarantine requirements and reducing social isolation may outweigh the residual risk of fully vaccinated people becoming ill with COVID-19 or transmitting the virus to others. [emphasis mine]
No, those two thoughts are not contradictory. It says some, not all.
This, this right here is why this can't end. Because people refuse to inform themselves.

Here is Israel's study. Of 523k fully vaccinated people, a whopping 4 had severe cases and 0 died.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/hmo-sees- ... -israelis/

Here's another study showing the J&J vaccine is 100% effective in preventing severe disease
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspec ... 19-disease

Once you are vaccinated, the risk is statistically close enough to zero to not matter, and well within the noise of all the other risks you take every day. If those numbers aren't good enough for someone to live life again, frankly I don't know how they ever manage to leave the house in the first place. You're literally more likely to get killed by lightning.
- A mountain is not a checkbox to be ticked
- Alpinism and mountaineering are not restricted to 14,000 foot mountains
- Judgment and experience are the two most important pieces of gear you own
- Being honest to yourself and others about your abilities is a characteristic of experienced climbers
- Courage cannot be bought at REI or carried with you in your rucksack

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Re: Masks in the Mountains

Post by rijaca »

Rollie Free wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 10:53 am
SkaredShtles wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:31 am
BillMiddlebrook wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 9:11 am
I'm shocked you believe this. Wow
I'm shocked you're shocked. CF is a moran. :mrgreen:
Ewww, never call someone a moron but if you do don't misspell it. (;
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Re: Masks in the Mountains

Post by Dave B »

I genuinely feel bad for the folks at the CDC. They were facing a novel virus with unknown impacts, but a high probability of significant death.

They chose an abundance of caution, as government agencies do when they face potential liability for policy recommendations and actions. Seriously, billions and billions of dollars in potential liability for policy actions.

That's not why I feel bad for them though. I feel bad for them because they get bashed for whatever decision they make. They recommend over-caution and get bashed for that. Had they recommended under-caution and they same number of people had died they would have gotten bashed for that as well. Meanwhile a bunch of keyboard warriors take it upon themselves to copy/paste "gOvrRnMeNt BaD," and scream and stamp their feet about conspiracy theories when it's really just a bunch of people trying to do their jobs and protect public health. Then, ironically, they keyboard warriors whine about personal attacks against them.

The entitlement mentality is nauseating. Those who have zero stake in the game get to castigate from their safe spaces. Lame, but expected.
Last edited by Dave B on Thu May 13, 2021 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Masks in the Mountains

Post by supranihilest »

crossfitter wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 10:57 am
supranihilest wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 10:37 am
crossfitter wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 10:35 am The vaccines work, once you get it, the disease becomes a non-issue. [emphasis mine]
Nope. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... o%20others.

I will note that the very next sentence says
However, the benefits of relaxing some measures such as testing and self-quarantine requirements for travelers, post-exposure quarantine requirements and reducing social isolation may outweigh the residual risk of fully vaccinated people becoming ill with COVID-19 or transmitting the virus to others. [emphasis mine]
No, those two thoughts are not contradictory. It says some, not all.
This, this right here is why this can't end. Because people refuse to inform themselves.

Here is Israel's study. Of 523k fully vaccinated people, a whopping 4 had severe cases and 0 died.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/hmo-sees- ... -israelis/

Here's another study showing the J&J vaccine is 100% effective in preventing severe disease
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspec ... 19-disease

Once you are vaccinated, the risk is statistically close enough to zero to not matter, and well within the noise of all the other risks you take every day. If those numbers aren't good enough for someone to live life again, frankly I don't know how they ever manage to leave the house in the first place. You're literally more likely to get killed by lightning.
I'm not talking about people who are vaccinated dying. What is the risk of vaccinated people still transmitting the virus to those who are not vaccinated? You have all the data I'm sure, let's see it.
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Re: Masks in the Mountains

Post by ker0uac »

supranihilest wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 10:27 am There's room for vaccines and therapy in my non-doctor's opinion.
Exactly but where are these therapies? I used to hear about vaccine development on the news every other day. I know some therapies are being tested and used, but you don't hear about them and I don't know much about them either. During HIV pandemic, there's a huge focus on therapies and vaccines. For reasons I don't understand, it was easier to develop therapies for HIV.
supranihilest wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 10:27 am Those viruses, like COVID, have not gone away, yet we don't throw our hands up in the air and say "well they'll be here forever so focus on therapy instead of vaccination".
I also never said that and never advocated anti-vaccination sentiment. I said covid impacts people differently depending on age and health status. This is undisputable. But we treat like that ain't so, assuming everyone is at the same risk. I often hear CDC say "the benefits of the vaccine outweigh the risks", but whose risk? My risk is much smaller relative to a 70yr old with heart disease.
supranihilest wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 10:27 am Men should take HPV seriously.
Sure, but you can't deny that women are more susceptible. If we ignore that fact, then what's epidemiology good for? I mean, have we all been vaccinated for Rabies? Why not? I have. What about yellow fever? Why not? I have. Maybe bc those *living* in the US are not subject to those viruses as people living in other countries? Of course, big pharma doesn't want you to think in terms of prevalence. Here's an example: meningitis B. There are fewer than 300 cases per year in the US. Yet, that doesn't keep Pfizer from fearmongering everyone to get their newly developed vaccine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn8ko_pzsyY
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