Which is great, as that is the only one I have not summited.
DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?
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Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?
This makes me wonder how they're spending so little money on the property. I'm pretty sure that Cielo Vista ranch far exceeds that number just in annual porta potty maintenance for the restricted numbers of hikers that come in.
"The love of wilderness is more than a hunger for what is always beyond reach; it is also an expression of loyalty to the earth, the earth which bore us and sustains us, the only home we shall ever know, the only paradise we ever need – if only we had the eyes to see." -Ed Abbey
"I get scared sometimes—lots of times—but it's not bad. You know? I feel close to myself. When I'm out there at night, I feel close to my own body, I can feel my blood moving, my skin and my fingernails, everything, it's like I'm full of electricity and I'm glowing in the dark—I'm on fire almost—I'm burning away into nothing—but it doesn't matter because I know exactly who I am." from The Things They Carried
"I get scared sometimes—lots of times—but it's not bad. You know? I feel close to myself. When I'm out there at night, I feel close to my own body, I can feel my blood moving, my skin and my fingernails, everything, it's like I'm full of electricity and I'm glowing in the dark—I'm on fire almost—I'm burning away into nothing—but it doesn't matter because I know exactly who I am." from The Things They Carried
- amderr22
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Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?
There is no way to summit Cameron without passing through closed private lands. Per the Colorado Fourteener Initiative's statement elsewhere on this page, there is no legal way to summit any of the four peaks right now. The closure is temporary - ideally, you will be able to go climb it safely and legally this summer.
-Alex Derr
"Some people go to church, other people explore the outdoors. But we're all looking for the same thing, at the core of it: A place in and respect for the world bigger than ourselves."
"Some people go to church, other people explore the outdoors. But we're all looking for the same thing, at the core of it: A place in and respect for the world bigger than ourselves."
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Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?
Side note, but how did this happen for you? Just curious, as Cameron is usually a footnote in the center of the Decalibron loop.
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Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?
Seems we should start looking into alternative ways to climb.
https://14ers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=59840
https://14ers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=59840
Verso l'alto
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Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?
https://coloradosun.com/2021/04/30/colo ... rat-bross/
“I could really see the owners’ frustrations. If you want your land preserved and protected, but you don’t want to put up fences and keep everyone out, you are really stuck between a rock and a hard place.”
Makes sense that they don’t want to be sued. But owning property for the purpose of future mining seems to contract the protection and preservation intentions, as others here have mentioned. It’s good the closure’s only planned til June 1.
“I could really see the owners’ frustrations. If you want your land preserved and protected, but you don’t want to put up fences and keep everyone out, you are really stuck between a rock and a hard place.”
Makes sense that they don’t want to be sued. But owning property for the purpose of future mining seems to contract the protection and preservation intentions, as others here have mentioned. It’s good the closure’s only planned til June 1.
Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?
The CFI is trying to protect access (for everyone) past this one month. But f**k em eh? Damn filthy capitalists!!!!1111pizza-sandwich wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:34 pmit’s a values argument.Trotter wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:08 amThe non profit that built the trails you use for free to get to the summits, is also asking you to respect the closure. You want CFI to kiss your ass too?pizza-sandwich wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:28 pm
i have no intention of “respecting” their closure. mining companies can kiss my ass.
i reject capitalism in all its forms. private land ownership—especially in this example—is immoral.
the CFI is capitulating to unethical demands of unethical men and i will not do the same. anyone that holds land hostage can kiss my ass, anyone who respects their hostage taking isn’t someone i want to associate with.
After climbing a great hill, one only finds that there are many more hills to climb. -Nelson Mandela
Whenever I climb I am followed by a dog called Ego. -Nietzsche
Whenever I climb I am followed by a dog called Ego. -Nietzsche
- RhodoRose
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Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?
[/quote]
random question if you know the answer, why do they still want to own the property, and not sell it to the govt/CFI?
[/quote]
Because the miners' research shows there is still potential, enough to cover operation costs and still end up with some yield. Actually, a lot of patented claim owners do give their land back to the state, it happens quite often. Mostly people who inherited claims that have been in the family for generations and have no interest in working/maintaining the claim or dealing with the cost, headache, and liability. We're talking smalltime, not the commercial operations you see on tv.
As mentioned, patented claims haven't been granted since 1994. Also as mentioned, there are plenty of rules dictating what you can and can't do, and big costs in addition to the fees, like insurance, hazard mitigation, reclamation, etc. Things that quickly eat away at potential profit. It's an involved process, for sure, you have to know what you're doing and it's a LOT of work. Which is also why people are giving up patented claims, either selling them (look online, you'll see literally thousands for sale in CO... 8 claims/72 inaccessable acres just below the summit of Mt. Princeton... ) or turning them back to the state.
random question if you know the answer, why do they still want to own the property, and not sell it to the govt/CFI?
[/quote]
Because the miners' research shows there is still potential, enough to cover operation costs and still end up with some yield. Actually, a lot of patented claim owners do give their land back to the state, it happens quite often. Mostly people who inherited claims that have been in the family for generations and have no interest in working/maintaining the claim or dealing with the cost, headache, and liability. We're talking smalltime, not the commercial operations you see on tv.
As mentioned, patented claims haven't been granted since 1994. Also as mentioned, there are plenty of rules dictating what you can and can't do, and big costs in addition to the fees, like insurance, hazard mitigation, reclamation, etc. Things that quickly eat away at potential profit. It's an involved process, for sure, you have to know what you're doing and it's a LOT of work. Which is also why people are giving up patented claims, either selling them (look online, you'll see literally thousands for sale in CO... 8 claims/72 inaccessable acres just below the summit of Mt. Princeton... ) or turning them back to the state.
But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
Philippians 3: 13-14
Philippians 3: 13-14
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Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?
Potential is the word to use - it's no guarantee that the mine would be profitable. I do think it's more speculation that the price of gold will go up substantially, and if it's cheap to just hold onto a claim for a few cents/day, then the gamble could be worth it. And even then, these mines are booms and busts, so any financial gain would be short lived. Personally, anyone that buys a mining claim on top of a 14,000' mountain in order to mine it in 2021 is not thinking clearly.RhodoRose wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 3:41 am
Because the miners' research shows there is still potential, enough to cover operation costs and still end up with some yield. Actually, a lot of patented claim owners do give their land back to the state, it happens quite often. Mostly people who inherited claims that have been in the family for generations and have no interest in working/maintaining the claim or dealing with the cost, headache, and liability. We're talking smalltime, not the commercial operations you see on tv.
I'm a little surprised not more of this is being done in a public way - a public comment period when a new mine is being built isn't out of the ordinary. I can certainly understand people feeling uncomfortable that entities like the CFI working with landowners in private, and that they promise to have everyone's best interests in mind and oh: if you could just stay out of it that would great. Is that not going to leave a bad taste in some people's mouths? I get that 9 months out of the year when they're not directing volunteer trail crews, they're lawyering and wealth managing, but perhaps they could be a little more sensitive on how they present themselves - they sure can assert they're power when they want to, it seems. My $0.02 for all that's worth.
Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?
We skipped cameron when we were coming from Democrat to Lincoln, then to bross. I believe the intention was to return to Cameron, but then we just descended Bross. It was over 30 years ago, and I forget the reasons why.
It's ok with me, as I am a gain 3,000 feet on Every 14er summit type of individual and wanted to go hike Cameron from low enough to achieve this.
- amderr22
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Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?
I'm working with the group - it's honestly pretty transparent - more than 20 organizations are involved in conversations in some way. Multiple rank-and-file CMC members and volunteers are participating, myself included. If you want to get involved, reach out to CFI or the CMC. They aren't necessarily publishing their strategy online or as press releases, as it's still being drafted, and it may require a push for legislation that will face steep opposition. Announcing those plans early on would likely doom any campaign later on by giving the opposing side time to lobby and stamp out potential changes - this has happened several times in the past on this specific issue. If and when a campaign for change starts, they'll be quite open about it - we'll need lots of grassroots support from outdoor enthusiasts to get the job done.justiner wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 2:24 pmPotential is the word to use - it's no guarantee that the mine would be profitable. I do think it's more speculation that the price of gold will go up substantially, and if it's cheap to just hold onto a claim for a few cents/day, then the gamble could be worth it. And even then, these mines are booms and busts, so any financial gain would be short lived. Personally, anyone that buys a mining claim on top of a 14,000' mountain in order to mine it in 2021 is not thinking clearly.RhodoRose wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 3:41 am
Because the miners' research shows there is still potential, enough to cover operation costs and still end up with some yield. Actually, a lot of patented claim owners do give their land back to the state, it happens quite often. Mostly people who inherited claims that have been in the family for generations and have no interest in working/maintaining the claim or dealing with the cost, headache, and liability. We're talking smalltime, not the commercial operations you see on tv.
I'm a little surprised not more of this is being done in a public way - a public comment period when a new mine is being built isn't out of the ordinary. I can certainly understand people feeling uncomfortable that entities like the CFI working with landowners in private, and that they promise to have everyone's best interests in mind and oh: if you could just stay out of it that would great. Is that not going to leave a bad taste in some people's mouths? I get that 9 months out of the year when they're not directing volunteer trail crews, they're lawyering and wealth managing, but perhaps they could be a little more sensitive on how they present themselves - they sure can assert they're power when they want to, it seems. My $0.02 for all that's worth.
Keep the faith - every single group involved wants to open these peaks, even the landowners. If you want to learn more or get involved, just reach out to the CMC. They'd be happy to chat and share more.
-Alex Derr
"Some people go to church, other people explore the outdoors. But we're all looking for the same thing, at the core of it: A place in and respect for the world bigger than ourselves."
"Some people go to church, other people explore the outdoors. But we're all looking for the same thing, at the core of it: A place in and respect for the world bigger than ourselves."
Re: DeCaLiBron Closed to public access?
I have a real hard time believe that these folks are acting in good faith. The minute they think they can turn a profit strip mining these peaks they will. I appreciate the hard work of CFI and everyone else, but it isn’t believable the “land owners” are acting as good stewards of the land here.
I tell you what, it’s difficult to be diplomatic about these landowners.
A man has got to know his limitations.-Dr. Jonathan Hemlock or Harry Callahan or something F' it: http://youtu.be/lpzqQst-Sg8
'Life is too short to ski groomers'
"That man's only desire was to stand, once only, on the summit of that glorious wedge of rock...I think anyone who loves the mountains as much as that can claim to be a mountaineer, too."-Hermann Buhl, Nanga Parbat Pilgrimage
'Life is too short to ski groomers'
"That man's only desire was to stand, once only, on the summit of that glorious wedge of rock...I think anyone who loves the mountains as much as that can claim to be a mountaineer, too."-Hermann Buhl, Nanga Parbat Pilgrimage