Running a peak: What it takes

Colorado peak questions, condition requests and other info.
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supranihilest
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Re: Running a peak: What it takes

Post by supranihilest » Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:53 pm

ekalina wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:38 pm
What footwear do you running folks wear for an outing that requires running+scrambling? I want to run the approaches but bring something that works for the scrambling that comes later, too.
La Sportiva Ultra Raptors if it's low Class 5 scrambling, La Sportiva Bushido II for all other scrambling, and La Sportiva Helios for purely hiking days or mostly hiking days with some Class 3 scrambling.
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Re: Running a peak: What it takes

Post by AnnaG22 » Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:06 pm

Going to posit a few thoughts to see what other yoggers (my preferred word for "running" peaks, since I'm on the slow side of "runners") think:

-at least 50% running
-non-running HR ~equivalent to running HR
-at a time and with adequate care such that your pace does not endanger hikers (this is more for the folks who reaaallly love their skyrunning)

I like Andrew's analysis re pace.
Adequately strong lower legs should be able to handle an ankle roll such that worst-case scenario is a sprain.

Re noting it on this site, I've generally just used the memo section to make a note for myself? I'll throw it in as a climb time too (also have a number of CTs entered from when I first caught 14er fever but didn't have enough screws loose yet to "run").

Another general question for the legume gallery, though: If a runner/yogger chooses to do a peak multiple times in one day, and they return to their original starting point in between summits, does that count as separate summits of the same peak? (I know this is the precedent on the Incline but not sure about consensus re 13er/14ers).
Last edited by AnnaG22 on Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Running a peak: What it takes

Post by ekalina » Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:23 pm

supranihilest wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:53 pm
ekalina wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:38 pm
What footwear do you running folks wear for an outing that requires running+scrambling? I want to run the approaches but bring something that works for the scrambling that comes later, too.
La Sportiva Ultra Raptors if it's low Class 5 scrambling, La Sportiva Bushido II for all other scrambling, and La Sportiva Helios for purely hiking days or mostly hiking days with some Class 3 scrambling.
Nice, I will check these out. Thanks!
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Re: Running a peak: What it takes

Post by stephakett » Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:33 pm

bergsteigen wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:42 pm
jmanner wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:38 pm
Quad strength
Stable ankles. I stopped running peaks after rolling an ankle. Too dangerous.
in my experience if you roll them enough, they don’t roll or break anymore. ](*,)
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Re: Running a peak: What it takes

Post by SchralpTheGnar » Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:52 pm

Let me know and I’ll help
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Re: Running a peak: What it takes

Post by jmanner » Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:03 am

I have averaged around 11-15 min/ miles on several peaks above 13,000, but I would never claim that I “ran them”, Ran on them with a lot of power hiking. Aside from the Pikes Peak record holder guy and Jornet, no one is really running these peaks. Certainly not the class 3-4 ones. Put call it whatever you want. If I’m going to actually run, there are far more fun runs below 10,000.
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Re: Running a peak: What it takes

Post by RETEP 1 » Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:48 am

jmanner wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:03 am
I have averaged around 11-15 min/ miles on several peaks above 13,000, but I would never claim that I “ran them”, Ran on them with a lot of power hiking. Aside from the Pikes Peak record holder guy and Jornet, no one is really running these peaks. Certainly not the class 3-4 ones. Put call it whatever you want. If I’m going to actually run, there are far more fun runs below 10,000.
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Re: Running a peak: What it takes

Post by Bean » Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:57 am

Back when I ran a lot I did T+G a couple times from I-70 in a little under 3:30, car to top of Torreys was right about 1:45 so ~16-17min/mi pace, summer TH to TH in 2:20 including a 2-3 min break on each summit, overall average pace just a hair over 14min/mi.

Do I get to check the box for those? It was the weekend but I started well before sunrise.
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Re: Running a peak: What it takes

Post by aholle88 » Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:02 am

jmanner wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:03 am
I have averaged around 11-15 min/ miles on several peaks above 13,000, but I would never claim that I “ran them”, Ran on them with a lot of power hiking. Aside from the Pikes Peak record holder guy and Jornet, no one is really running these peaks. Certainly not the class 3-4 ones. Put call it whatever you want. If I’m going to actually run, there are far more fun runs below 10,000.
If you did a 50-100 mile ultra, would you say you ran an ultramarathon? Ultra “running” and VKs are along the same lines as hiking peaks. Only the Kilians and Krupicka’s of the world are actually “running” the whole thing.

I’m kinda in the same boat as you honestly, it’s hard for me to call it a run when it’s 65/35ish, hike/run ratio (1:15 up/30down or whatever). Yeah, it’ll go in the Strava as a run, but I like to think of it more as “adventure running”. Running the downhills, flats, and uphills up to roughly 8-10% grade, hiking anything uphills more than that = adventure running.

I always think of it in the context of telling someone who isn’t in the know. If you tell your co worker on Monday morning that you went and ran some mountains over the weekend, they are going to think you are an elite level athlete like Kilian/Krupicka. And that’s just not the case for 99% of us. Even just explaining to patients, “yeah I’m signed up for a 100 miler this year”. Patient: “you are going to run 100 miles?!?! Omg you are out of your mind, you must be *insert exaggerated big head making comment*.” Me: “no no, it’s a 100 mile run but I’ll be hiking 65-70% of it so it’s not really actually running 100 miles”.
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Re: Running a peak: What it takes

Post by jmanner » Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:27 am

aholle88 wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:02 am
jmanner wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:03 am
I have averaged around 11-15 min/ miles on several peaks above 13,000, but I would never claim that I “ran them”, Ran on them with a lot of power hiking. Aside from the Pikes Peak record holder guy and Jornet, no one is really running these peaks. Certainly not the class 3-4 ones. Put call it whatever you want. If I’m going to actually run, there are far more fun runs below 10,000.
If you did a 50-100 mile ultra, would you say you ran an ultramarathon? Ultra “running” and VKs are along the same lines as hiking peaks. Only the Kilians and Krupicka’s of the world are actually “running” the whole thing.

I’m kinda in the same boat as you honestly, it’s hard for me to call it a run when it’s 65/35ish, hike/run ratio (1:15 up/30down or whatever). Yeah, it’ll go in the Strava as a run, but I like to think of it more as “adventure running”. Running the downhills, flats, and uphills up to roughly 8-10% grade, hiking anything uphills more than that = adventure running.

I always think of it in the context of telling someone who isn’t in the know. If you tell your co worker on Monday morning that you went and ran some mountains over the weekend, they are going to think you are an elite level athlete like Kilian/Krupicka. And that’s just not the case for 99% of us. Even just explaining to patients, “yeah I’m signed up for a 100 miler this year”. Patient: “you are going to run 100 miles?!?! Omg you are out of your mind, you must be *insert exaggerated big head making comment*.” Me: “no no, it’s a 100 mile run but I’ll be hiking 65-70% of it so it’s not really actually running 100 miles”.
I mean, I won’t participate in anything over 26.2 miles and the trail marathon I ran, I ran the entire thing but about a mile of steep grade. If I were to participate in an ultra I’d tell people that I power hiked. Which is what I tell coworkers(not that anyone ever really cares about our mountain activities) I did If it comes up or I say “I ran the flat stuff and power hiked the tundra(or whatever).” FWIW: I don’t really put Anton and Jornet in the same bracket. The later is exceptionally more gifted. Edited to remove fanboy triggers.
Last edited by jmanner on Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Running a peak: What it takes

Post by pizza-sandwich » Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:34 am

this is a weird argument.

call it running if you’re pushing your maximum sustainable pace with as much actual and definable running as possible. if your goal is to run every section or grade you can, while power hiking the rest, that’s a run in my book.

bottom line: maximized running minimized hiking qualifies as a run.
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Re: Running a peak: What it takes

Post by jmanner » Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:41 am

pizza-sandwich wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:34 am
this is a weird argument.

call it running if you’re pushing your maximum sustainable pace with as much actual and definable running as possible. if your goal is to run every section or grade you can, while power hiking the rest, that’s a run in my book.

bottom line: maximized running minimized hiking qualifies as a run.
I’ve literally gotten my heart into zone 4 and 5 power hiking at 13,000+ feet. But max effort during a workout is not running. Call it what YOU want, but claiming to have “run” every 14er while putting down 20-40 minute miles as an average isn’t going to persuade someone like me that’s a life long runner. If you want to call it a trail run, trail run, if you want to go up Capitol, probably need to be a lot fitter or just accept that you ran the approach and then hiked and scrambled the rest.
A man has got to know his limitations.-Dr. Jonathan Hemlock or Harry Callahan or something F' it: http://youtu.be/lpzqQst-Sg8

'Life is too short to ski groomers'

"That man's only desire was to stand, once only, on the summit of that glorious wedge of rock...I think anyone who loves the mountains as much as that can claim to be a mountaineer, too."-Hermann Buhl, Nanga Parbat Pilgrimage
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