Say NO to the sharpie summit

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mtree
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Re: Say NO to the sharpie summit

Post by mtree »

I saw one of those on a stone at the Quandary summit once. I was snacking and stewing and thinking and realized I had some rubbing alcohol in my first aid supplies. So I used it to attempt to erase the Sharpie. It didn't work. Bummer.

Got home and experimented with acetone and Goof Off! Neither very effective taking Sharpie off a rough stone. Oh well. Just thought I'd pass along the info. If someone knows what can easily remove the Sharpie, I'll gladly carry a bit with me.
- I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was blaming you.
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Re: Say NO to the sharpie summit

Post by pvnisher »

Thirty feet of vertical displacement is probably sufficient.

The root cause, eeehhh. Good luck.
But at least if there aren't examples laying around maybe copycats won't indulge.
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wildlobo71
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Re: Say NO to the sharpie summit

Post by wildlobo71 »

Wish I lived in CO wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:18 am Who here remembers the "Elbert Lameness" thread from about 10 years ago? Classic, should have been in the Hall of Fame. I searched for it some time ago but couldn't find it, Bill must have deleted it.
Definitely one of the more entertaining threads we've had. If it's not HOF, then it, like summit sharpy moments, should be only in the recesses of our minds.
Bill W.

Time for the next great losing streak to begin.
#forcedrefocus
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Re: Say NO to the sharpie summit

Post by SurfNTurf »

Sadly, it's not the people who read 14ers.com that are guilty. It's kind of a brain-melting conundrum. Leave No Trace information is seemingly EVERYWHERE -- websites, trailheads, guidebooks, apps, social media. Yet the majority of people on a 14er trail likely have never even heard of the principle. Most of the time rulebreakers who leave cardboard signs behind on the summit, write on rocks with Sharpies, hit golf balls off the peaks, etc. aren't evil assholes, they simply don't know any better. Throw in the fact that most well-intentioned folks who attempt to correct them are terrible at non-escalating communication -- no one responds well to being chided in public -- and you have a recipe for a continuing trend. I don't know how to fix it. "Education" is the obvious answer, but at some point, you can only put information in front of someone so many times. It's all out there and easily accessible. It's up to individuals, eventually, to absorb it.
“There are two kinds of climbers: those who climb because their heart sings when they’re in the mountains, and all the rest.” - Alex Lowe

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mtree
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Re: Say NO to the sharpie summit

Post by mtree »

SurfNTurf wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:32 am Sadly, it's not the people who read 14ers.com that are guilty. It's kind of a brain-melting conundrum. Leave No Trace information is seemingly EVERYWHERE -- websites, trailheads, guidebooks, apps, social media. Yet the majority of people on a 14er trail likely have never even heard of the principle. Most of the time rulebreakers who leave cardboard signs behind on the summit, write on rocks with Sharpies, hit golf balls off the peaks, etc. aren't evil assholes, they simply don't know any better. Throw in the fact that most well-intentioned folks who attempt to correct them are terrible at non-escalating communication -- no one responds well to being chided in public -- and you have a recipe for a continuing trend. I don't know how to fix it. "Education" is the obvious answer, but at some point, you can only put information in front of someone so many times. It's all out there and easily accessible. It's up to individuals, eventually, to absorb it.
Unfortunately, everything you say is correct. "Education" isn't necessarily the answer. You can only educate those who want to learn and those who will put it to use. I'd add enlightenment to the list of possible solutions. Its that lightbulb that turns on in a person. How to accomplish that is a mystery. Some people get it. Some people don't.
- I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was blaming you.
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Re: Say NO to the sharpie summit

Post by TaylorHolt »

SurfNTurf wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:32 am Sadly, it's not the people who read 14ers.com that are guilty. It's kind of a brain-melting conundrum. Leave No Trace information is seemingly EVERYWHERE -- websites, trailheads, guidebooks, apps, social media. Yet the majority of people on a 14er trail likely have never even heard of the principle. Most of the time rulebreakers who leave cardboard signs behind on the summit, write on rocks with Sharpies, hit golf balls off the peaks, etc. aren't evil assholes, they simply don't know any better. Throw in the fact that most well-intentioned folks who attempt to correct them are terrible at non-escalating communication -- no one responds well to being chided in public -- and you have a recipe for a continuing trend. I don't know how to fix it. "Education" is the obvious answer, but at some point, you can only put information in front of someone so many times. It's all out there and easily accessible. It's up to individuals, eventually, to absorb it.
You're 100% right on all of this, but the bolded section is the hardest part. Even when I approach someone in a non-threating/non-aggressive manner, most people (not all) get super defensive and become more entrenched in the idea that they aren't doing anything wrong. It's human instinct. I'll still say something if I see something egregious, but I feel the best way to teach without confrontation is to lead by example: pick up trash on the trail and in the parking lot after a hike, volunteer with CFI, pick up summit signs, pass on the trail or on rocks rather than the tundra, etc. Hopefully at least a few people will notice.
“If you're bumming out, you're not gonna get to the top, so as long as we're up here we might as well make a point of grooving." -Scott Fischer
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mtree
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Re: Say NO to the sharpie summit

Post by mtree »

4thPlaceAtFieldDay wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:19 am Even when I approach someone in a non-threating/non-aggressive manner, most people (not all) get super defensive and become more entrenched in the idea that they aren't doing anything wrong. It's human instinct. I'll still say something if I see something egregious, but I feel the best way to teach without confrontation is to lead by example: pick up trash on the trail and in the parking lot after a hike, volunteer with CFI, pick up summit signs, pass on the trail or on rocks rather than the tundra, etc. Hopefully at least a few people will notice.
YOU may think you're approaching someone in a non-threatening manner, but that's just your perception. "Approaching" in any manner may seem threatening to some folks.

Leading by example is great, but those who are self absorbed will never notice. And its nice to clean up summits, trailheads, and parking areas. Unfortunately the ignorant and self entitled may be feel even more encouraged to leave behind their trash since it appears there are folks who will pick up after them. A sad fact of today's society. Wish I had answers.
- I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was blaming you.
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Re: Say NO to the sharpie summit

Post by XterraRob »

A can of bear mace is a fairly easy way to send a message to offending parties about their unwelcomed summit practices.

"I have not come to bring peace, but capsaicin."
Matthew 10:34
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Re: Say NO to the sharpie summit

Post by nunns »

mtree wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:09 am
SurfNTurf wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:32 am Sadly, it's not the people who read 14ers.com that are guilty. It's kind of a brain-melting conundrum. Leave No Trace information is seemingly EVERYWHERE -- websites, trailheads, guidebooks, apps, social media. Yet the majority of people on a 14er trail likely have never even heard of the principle. Most of the time rulebreakers who leave cardboard signs behind on the summit, write on rocks with Sharpies, hit golf balls off the peaks, etc. aren't evil assholes, they simply don't know any better. Throw in the fact that most well-intentioned folks who attempt to correct them are terrible at non-escalating communication -- no one responds well to being chided in public -- and you have a recipe for a continuing trend. I don't know how to fix it. "Education" is the obvious answer, but at some point, you can only put information in front of someone so many times. It's all out there and easily accessible. It's up to individuals, eventually, to absorb it.
Unfortunately, everything you say is correct. "Education" isn't necessarily the answer. You can only educate those who want to learn and those who will put it to use. I'd add enlightenment to the list of possible solutions. Its that lightbulb that turns on in a person. How to accomplish that is a mystery. Some people get it. Some people don't.
Mtree, your statement is true in many many ways, most of which have nothing to do with defacing rocks on mountains. As a 29 year teacher, I have seen this truth again and again.

Sean Nunn
"Thy righteousness is like the great mountains." --Psalms 36:6
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Re: Say NO to the sharpie summit

Post by greenonion »

XterraRob wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:57 pm A can of bear mace is a fairly easy way to send a message to offending parties about their unwelcomed summit practices.

"I have not come to bring peace, but capsaicin."
Matthew 10:34
While I hate the practice of sharpie summits, this comment is aching for a response that is parallel to something about a church near Lafayette Square. If you're baiting, you certainly got me.
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Re: Say NO to the sharpie summit

Post by wildlobo71 »

greenonion wrote: Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:58 am
XterraRob wrote: Wed Jun 03, 2020 1:57 pm A can of bear mace is a fairly easy way to send a message to offending parties about their unwelcomed summit practices.

"I have not come to bring peace, but capsaicin."
Matthew 10:34
While I hate the practice of sharpie summits, this comment is aching for a response that is parallel to something about a church near Lafayette Square. If you're baiting, you certainly got me.
^ Even more irrational than being upset by the person on the summit with a radio or a sharpie. Just turn around and leave, be the bigger person.

Oh yeah, some people can't be.
Bill W.

Time for the next great losing streak to begin.
#forcedrefocus
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Re: Say NO to the sharpie summit

Post by blazintoes »

Acts of omission matter as much as acts of commission.
To have even a small positive impact we must have short bits of uncomfortable talk. Tell em!
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