Say NO to the sharpie summit
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- mtree
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Re: Say NO to the sharpie summit
I saw one of those on a stone at the Quandary summit once. I was snacking and stewing and thinking and realized I had some rubbing alcohol in my first aid supplies. So I used it to attempt to erase the Sharpie. It didn't work. Bummer.
Got home and experimented with acetone and Goof Off! Neither very effective taking Sharpie off a rough stone. Oh well. Just thought I'd pass along the info. If someone knows what can easily remove the Sharpie, I'll gladly carry a bit with me.
Got home and experimented with acetone and Goof Off! Neither very effective taking Sharpie off a rough stone. Oh well. Just thought I'd pass along the info. If someone knows what can easily remove the Sharpie, I'll gladly carry a bit with me.
- I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was blaming you.
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Re: Say NO to the sharpie summit
Thirty feet of vertical displacement is probably sufficient.
The root cause, eeehhh. Good luck.
But at least if there aren't examples laying around maybe copycats won't indulge.
The root cause, eeehhh. Good luck.
But at least if there aren't examples laying around maybe copycats won't indulge.
- wildlobo71
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Re: Say NO to the sharpie summit
Definitely one of the more entertaining threads we've had. If it's not HOF, then it, like summit sharpy moments, should be only in the recesses of our minds.Wish I lived in CO wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:18 am Who here remembers the "Elbert Lameness" thread from about 10 years ago? Classic, should have been in the Hall of Fame. I searched for it some time ago but couldn't find it, Bill must have deleted it.
Bill W.
Time for the next great losing streak to begin.
#forcedrefocus
Time for the next great losing streak to begin.
#forcedrefocus
Re: Say NO to the sharpie summit
Sadly, it's not the people who read 14ers.com that are guilty. It's kind of a brain-melting conundrum. Leave No Trace information is seemingly EVERYWHERE -- websites, trailheads, guidebooks, apps, social media. Yet the majority of people on a 14er trail likely have never even heard of the principle. Most of the time rulebreakers who leave cardboard signs behind on the summit, write on rocks with Sharpies, hit golf balls off the peaks, etc. aren't evil assholes, they simply don't know any better. Throw in the fact that most well-intentioned folks who attempt to correct them are terrible at non-escalating communication -- no one responds well to being chided in public -- and you have a recipe for a continuing trend. I don't know how to fix it. "Education" is the obvious answer, but at some point, you can only put information in front of someone so many times. It's all out there and easily accessible. It's up to individuals, eventually, to absorb it.
“There are two kinds of climbers: those who climb because their heart sings when they’re in the mountains, and all the rest.” - Alex Lowe
"There have been joys too great to describe in words, and there have been griefs upon which I cannot dare to dwell; and with those in mind I say, 'Climb if you will, but remember that courage and strength are nought without prudence, and that a momentary negligence may destroy the happiness of a lifetime. Do nothing in haste, look well to each step, and from the beginning think what may be the end.'" - Edward Whymper
"There have been joys too great to describe in words, and there have been griefs upon which I cannot dare to dwell; and with those in mind I say, 'Climb if you will, but remember that courage and strength are nought without prudence, and that a momentary negligence may destroy the happiness of a lifetime. Do nothing in haste, look well to each step, and from the beginning think what may be the end.'" - Edward Whymper
- mtree
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Re: Say NO to the sharpie summit
Unfortunately, everything you say is correct. "Education" isn't necessarily the answer. You can only educate those who want to learn and those who will put it to use. I'd add enlightenment to the list of possible solutions. Its that lightbulb that turns on in a person. How to accomplish that is a mystery. Some people get it. Some people don't.SurfNTurf wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:32 am Sadly, it's not the people who read 14ers.com that are guilty. It's kind of a brain-melting conundrum. Leave No Trace information is seemingly EVERYWHERE -- websites, trailheads, guidebooks, apps, social media. Yet the majority of people on a 14er trail likely have never even heard of the principle. Most of the time rulebreakers who leave cardboard signs behind on the summit, write on rocks with Sharpies, hit golf balls off the peaks, etc. aren't evil assholes, they simply don't know any better. Throw in the fact that most well-intentioned folks who attempt to correct them are terrible at non-escalating communication -- no one responds well to being chided in public -- and you have a recipe for a continuing trend. I don't know how to fix it. "Education" is the obvious answer, but at some point, you can only put information in front of someone so many times. It's all out there and easily accessible. It's up to individuals, eventually, to absorb it.
- I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was blaming you.
- TaylorHolt
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Re: Say NO to the sharpie summit
You're 100% right on all of this, but the bolded section is the hardest part. Even when I approach someone in a non-threating/non-aggressive manner, most people (not all) get super defensive and become more entrenched in the idea that they aren't doing anything wrong. It's human instinct. I'll still say something if I see something egregious, but I feel the best way to teach without confrontation is to lead by example: pick up trash on the trail and in the parking lot after a hike, volunteer with CFI, pick up summit signs, pass on the trail or on rocks rather than the tundra, etc. Hopefully at least a few people will notice.SurfNTurf wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:32 am Sadly, it's not the people who read 14ers.com that are guilty. It's kind of a brain-melting conundrum. Leave No Trace information is seemingly EVERYWHERE -- websites, trailheads, guidebooks, apps, social media. Yet the majority of people on a 14er trail likely have never even heard of the principle. Most of the time rulebreakers who leave cardboard signs behind on the summit, write on rocks with Sharpies, hit golf balls off the peaks, etc. aren't evil assholes, they simply don't know any better. Throw in the fact that most well-intentioned folks who attempt to correct them are terrible at non-escalating communication -- no one responds well to being chided in public -- and you have a recipe for a continuing trend. I don't know how to fix it. "Education" is the obvious answer, but at some point, you can only put information in front of someone so many times. It's all out there and easily accessible. It's up to individuals, eventually, to absorb it.
“If you're bumming out, you're not gonna get to the top, so as long as we're up here we might as well make a point of grooving." -Scott Fischer
- mtree
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Re: Say NO to the sharpie summit
YOU may think you're approaching someone in a non-threatening manner, but that's just your perception. "Approaching" in any manner may seem threatening to some folks.4thPlaceAtFieldDay wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:19 am Even when I approach someone in a non-threating/non-aggressive manner, most people (not all) get super defensive and become more entrenched in the idea that they aren't doing anything wrong. It's human instinct. I'll still say something if I see something egregious, but I feel the best way to teach without confrontation is to lead by example: pick up trash on the trail and in the parking lot after a hike, volunteer with CFI, pick up summit signs, pass on the trail or on rocks rather than the tundra, etc. Hopefully at least a few people will notice.
Leading by example is great, but those who are self absorbed will never notice. And its nice to clean up summits, trailheads, and parking areas. Unfortunately the ignorant and self entitled may be feel even more encouraged to leave behind their trash since it appears there are folks who will pick up after them. A sad fact of today's society. Wish I had answers.
- I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was blaming you.
- XterraRob
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Re: Say NO to the sharpie summit
A can of bear mace is a fairly easy way to send a message to offending parties about their unwelcomed summit practices.
"I have not come to bring peace, but capsaicin."
Matthew 10:34
"I have not come to bring peace, but capsaicin."
Matthew 10:34
RIP - M56
Re-introduce Grizzly Bears into the Colorado Wilderness™
Re-introduce Grizzly Bears into the Colorado Wilderness™
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Re: Say NO to the sharpie summit
Mtree, your statement is true in many many ways, most of which have nothing to do with defacing rocks on mountains. As a 29 year teacher, I have seen this truth again and again.mtree wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:09 amUnfortunately, everything you say is correct. "Education" isn't necessarily the answer. You can only educate those who want to learn and those who will put it to use. I'd add enlightenment to the list of possible solutions. Its that lightbulb that turns on in a person. How to accomplish that is a mystery. Some people get it. Some people don't.SurfNTurf wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:32 am Sadly, it's not the people who read 14ers.com that are guilty. It's kind of a brain-melting conundrum. Leave No Trace information is seemingly EVERYWHERE -- websites, trailheads, guidebooks, apps, social media. Yet the majority of people on a 14er trail likely have never even heard of the principle. Most of the time rulebreakers who leave cardboard signs behind on the summit, write on rocks with Sharpies, hit golf balls off the peaks, etc. aren't evil assholes, they simply don't know any better. Throw in the fact that most well-intentioned folks who attempt to correct them are terrible at non-escalating communication -- no one responds well to being chided in public -- and you have a recipe for a continuing trend. I don't know how to fix it. "Education" is the obvious answer, but at some point, you can only put information in front of someone so many times. It's all out there and easily accessible. It's up to individuals, eventually, to absorb it.
Sean Nunn
"Thy righteousness is like the great mountains." --Psalms 36:6
- greenonion
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Re: Say NO to the sharpie summit
While I hate the practice of sharpie summits, this comment is aching for a response that is parallel to something about a church near Lafayette Square. If you're baiting, you certainly got me.
- wildlobo71
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Re: Say NO to the sharpie summit
^ Even more irrational than being upset by the person on the summit with a radio or a sharpie. Just turn around and leave, be the bigger person.greenonion wrote: ↑Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:58 amWhile I hate the practice of sharpie summits, this comment is aching for a response that is parallel to something about a church near Lafayette Square. If you're baiting, you certainly got me.
Oh yeah, some people can't be.
Bill W.
Time for the next great losing streak to begin.
#forcedrefocus
Time for the next great losing streak to begin.
#forcedrefocus
- blazintoes
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Re: Say NO to the sharpie summit
Acts of omission matter as much as acts of commission.
To have even a small positive impact we must have short bits of uncomfortable talk. Tell em!
To have even a small positive impact we must have short bits of uncomfortable talk. Tell em!