Vertical Talus "Ripples/Waves" near Wetterhorn?

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Re: Vertical Talus "Ripples/Waves" near Wetterhorn?

Post by XterraRob »

Deep down, part of me wishes there were still some form of glacial ice hidden beneath the many rock fields in Colorado. The boulder field north east of North Maroon being one example.
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Re: Vertical Talus "Ripples/Waves" near Wetterhorn?

Post by HikerGuy »

XterraRob wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:45 pm Deep down, part of me wishes there were still some form of glacial ice hidden beneath the many rock fields in Colorado. The boulder field north east of North Maroon being one example.
There is! All of them contain ice, but it may not be glacial ice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_glacier

EDIT: Article discussing Colorado's rock glaciers, https://sustainability.colostate.edu/hu ... -colorado/
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Re: Vertical Talus "Ripples/Waves" near Wetterhorn?

Post by Scott P »

XterraRob wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:45 pm Deep down, part of me wishes there were still some form of glacial ice hidden beneath the many rock fields in Colorado. The boulder field north east of North Maroon being one example.
In late summer there are sometimes what appear to be tiny crevasses in what's left of the snow/ice so there's a good chance that there is.
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Re: Vertical Talus "Ripples/Waves" near Wetterhorn?

Post by justiner »

It would be really cool to see photos of this ice underneath one of the 3500 rock glaciers in CO, but I haven't seen one Ice is supposed to only be 10' below the surfaced, according to the article.
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Re: Vertical Talus "Ripples/Waves" near Wetterhorn?

Post by ekalina »

I had no idea there could be glacier remnants buried underneath a big mound of talus in Colorado. For some reason my mind is really blown by that, I guess because I thought all of the true glaciers were gone. Turns out they're just below ground.
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Re: Vertical Talus "Ripples/Waves" near Wetterhorn?

Post by k_fergie »

justiner wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:09 pm It would be really cool to see photos of this ice underneath one of the 3500 rock glaciers in CO, but I haven't seen one Ice is supposed to only be 10' below the surfaced, according to the article.
One that comes to mind was that massive landslide south of Hallet peak in June of this year. In the video taken by the boulderers that were up close to the event, you can see ice entrained in the debris flow. Maybe that was from the underlying rock glacier? The article from CSU that was linked by HikerGuy has a link to a map of rock glaciers in CO, and it indicates a very large one in Chaos Canyon that is very obvious from the satellite imagery. I am not sure that the ice in the video was from the rock glacier rather than surface snow/ice, but I suppose its plausible
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Re: Vertical Talus "Ripples/Waves" near Wetterhorn?

Post by Boggy B »

^ Good article. Surprising that Pikas are vulnerable to such moderate temps.
geojed wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:08 pm “bottom 5” of talus you’ve encountered?
When you make a move and the talus hundreds of feet above you begins to creep downwards is uniquely terrifying.

Speaking of glacial ice, in late summer I found the NE gully of 13067 (near Clark) to be a super dense black-ice mud slurry with just enough scree locked into the surface to get up it. Memorable if not especially difficult. Some years that gully holds snow through the summer.

If you visit places where large avy paths funnel into a streambed, you might find moulins after a good winter. The last big Niagara Gulch (Eureka) slide left a tourable ice tunnel that survived through 2 hot summers.

The weirdest thing I've ever seen though was a series of water ice pillars in Angel Creek (Ouray) chock full of pebbles, in the wake of I guess a mid-winter debris flow. Still don't understand how wheelbarrows full of rock managed to become suspended in vertical ice.

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Re: Vertical Talus "Ripples/Waves" near Wetterhorn?

Post by justiner »

k_fergie wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:08 pm One that comes to mind was that massive landslide south of Hallet peak in June of this year. In the video taken by the boulderers that were up close to the event, you can see ice entrained in the debris flow. Maybe that was from the underlying rock glacier? The article from CSU that was linked by HikerGuy has a link to a map of rock glaciers in CO, and it indicates a very large one in Chaos Canyon that is very obvious from the satellite imagery. I am not sure that the ice in the video was from the rock glacier rather than surface snow/ice, but I suppose its plausible
I didn't notice that in the Chaos Canyon video, I'll have to take a closer look. Perhaps what I'm looking for is a sheet of ice, and what's really there is more like a dirty/gravely material with ice kind of keeping it all together. The most obvious example I know is the Boulderfield on Longs which is purported to be a rock glacier. The Boulderfield shelter that used to be there supposedly was destroy by the movement of the rock glacier. One of the classic Longs Peak book talks about readings of some sort being taken that points to ice underneath. Funny still that the ice is just never revealed - like even as a spring at the foot of the rock glacier. Maybe that's the source of the swampy water above Jim's Grove.

One (as a layman) then wonders about the hydrology of just mountains in general, and just how much water in all forms a mountain stores. I remember seeing quite the study of London Mountain done (where, I have since forgotten) because of all the mining and the tunnel that connects both sides. Fun stuff.
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Re: Vertical Talus "Ripples/Waves" near Wetterhorn?

Post by Scott P »

justiner wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:09 pm It would be really cool to see photos of this ice underneath one of the 3500 rock glaciers in CO, but I haven't seen one Ice is supposed to only be 10' below the surfaced, according to the article.
Sometimes you can tell it's there by the color or creeks coming out of the talus or the lakes near the terminus of the rock (or ice) glacier. It's known as glacier milk and often makes for some pretty colored lakes. It's caused by moving ice grinding boulders together and making a very fine dust which ends up in the water.
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Re: Vertical Talus "Ripples/Waves" near Wetterhorn?

Post by Jorts »

Different mineral dust at work Scott? This color contrast between two neighboring lakes amazed me.
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Re: Vertical Talus "Ripples/Waves" near Wetterhorn?

Post by k_fergie »

justiner wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:15 pm
k_fergie wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:08 pm One that comes to mind was that massive landslide south of Hallet peak in June of this year. In the video taken by the boulderers that were up close to the event, you can see ice entrained in the debris flow. Maybe that was from the underlying rock glacier? The article from CSU that was linked by HikerGuy has a link to a map of rock glaciers in CO, and it indicates a very large one in Chaos Canyon that is very obvious from the satellite imagery. I am not sure that the ice in the video was from the rock glacier rather than surface snow/ice, but I suppose its plausible
I didn't notice that in the Chaos Canyon video, I'll have to take a closer look. Perhaps what I'm looking for is a sheet of ice, and what's really there is more like a dirty/gravely material with ice kind of keeping it all together. The most obvious example I know is the Boulderfield on Longs which is purported to be a rock glacier. The Boulderfield shelter that used to be there supposedly was destroy by the movement of the rock glacier. One of the classic Longs Peak book talks about readings of some sort being taken that points to ice underneath. Funny still that the ice is just never revealed - like even as a spring at the foot of the rock glacier. Maybe that's the source of the swampy water above Jim's Grove.

One (as a layman) then wonders about the hydrology of just mountains in general, and just how much water in all forms a mountain stores. I remember seeing quite the study of London Mountain done (where, I have since forgotten) because of all the mining and the tunnel that connects both sides. Fun stuff.
I hadn't read that about the boulderfield shelter, but thats pretty cool!

Yeah its definitely more on the dirty/gravely/icy mixture in the Chaos Canyon video, so I'm not sure its rock glacier ice. Then the question becomes what is the difference between permafrost and rock glacier ice? I suppose gradual movement? I don't know, but I certainly find all this geology stuff so interesting to ponder while hiking. Sometimes I like the think I'm getting an honorary geology degree while out exploring :lol: :lol:
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Re: Vertical Talus "Ripples/Waves" near Wetterhorn?

Post by Scott P »

Jorts wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:46 am Different mineral dust at work Scott? This color contrast between two neighboring lakes amazed me.

1CE3C127-06EF-432F-BA94-C115385D4D11.jpeg
Most likely just different concentrations of dust. The higher lake has more dust than the lower one.
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