Who wants credit for this one?

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CaptainSuburbia
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Re: Who wants credit for this one?

Post by CaptainSuburbia » Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:18 am

Didn't Roach once say "never pass up a chance to pee" or something like that?
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JtheChemE
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Re: Who wants credit for this one?

Post by JtheChemE » Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:19 am

polar wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:09 am
JtheChemE wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:06 am
I'm an engineer too, it passes all the sniff tests to me.
So can you explain to me why it makes sense to you? (I assume you're a chemical engineer?)
It's hard to imagine a perfect hike where water input matches water output, so that is the key assumption. Water input = drinking, water output = respiration, perspirations, urination (perhaps some other mechanisms I am not aware of).

So if we do a basic material balance, you are likely to output more liquid than input. So with that in mind, retaining waste liquid is excess matter to keep warm. In a perfect world if you input the exact net output, than indeed it wouldn't make too much of a difference from mass balance perspective (energy balance also really complex, so maybe assume water input is approximately body temp). While the body is a complex system, if you consider just water the back of the envelope energy balance checks out.

You can take this into the weeds ad infinitum, so I have nothing else to say. Too many potentially good topics devolve into an exercise in pissing contests, and I'm not into that. The moral of the story is simple, don't plan your day around peeing (as Polar implied I suggested, which I did not) but don't hold your urine to save 30 seconds on the day.
Last edited by JtheChemE on Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Who wants credit for this one?

Post by CaptCO » Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:22 am

My freediving instructor always told me if I'm not pissing in my wetsuit, I'm dehydrated. Warms you up for a few minutes while diaphragmatic breathing
"It's a thing if you want it to be a thing. What others think of something is irrelevant." -OldSchool

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Aphelion
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Re: Who wants credit for this one?

Post by Aphelion » Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:26 am

JtheChemE wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:06 am

I'm an engineer too, it passes all the sniff tests to me. What's the specific heat of water again? ...
The urine within a bladder isn't attempting to reach thermal equilibrium with the outside air, it's at equilibrium with your body temperature. It takes the same amount of "wasted" energy to keep urine warm as an equivalent volume of blood (probably less so, since urine hopefully isn't circulating out to your colder extremities). Functionally, emptying the bladder is just reducing body mass while maintaining metabolic/thermal generation. If we assume an average american person of around 84 kilos, and an average bladder capacity of around 500mL, that's a loss of ~0.6%. Becoming 0.6% smaller will technically help warm you more, but I doubt anyone would notice it sans placebo effect.
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Re: Who wants credit for this one?

Post by polar » Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:32 am

Not trying to turn this into a pissing match, just trying to debunk a piece of cold weather advice that has persisted throughout the years. Because if the advice isn't really valid, then there's no reason to keep it.

Urine is the output of metabolism. When it's produced, it's already at body temperature. It is then kept in the bladder, which is well insulated by the body. There are no major mechanisms of heat loss at work in the bladder (conduction, convection, radiation, and evaporation). So besides the normal energy used for the metabolic process, you don't need a huge amount of energy to keep it at body temperature.

The input of the metabolic process is more important in this case. If you drink cold liquid, then your body would need to use energy to warm it up to body temperature. But if your drink is already at body temperature or warmer, then no extra energy is wasted.
Last edited by polar on Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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AndrewLyonsGeibel
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Re: Who wants credit for this one?

Post by AndrewLyonsGeibel » Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:20 am

Just don’t pee into the wind. Other than that. Meh.
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Re: Who wants credit for this one?

Post by Bale » Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:58 pm

AndrewLyonsGeibel wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:20 am
Just don’t pee into the wind. Other than that. Meh.
And don’t eat yellow snow.
The earth, like the sun, like the air, belongs to everyone - and to no one. - Edward Abbey
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Re: Who wants credit for this one?

Post by CaptCO » Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:08 pm

Bale wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:58 pm
AndrewLyonsGeibel wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:20 am
Just don’t pee into the wind. Other than that. Meh.
And don’t eat yellow snow.
Wait.. you’re telling me the sweet taste isn’t from tree sap? Uh oh :oops:
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Re: Who wants credit for this one?

Post by Conor » Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:27 pm

polar wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:32 am
Not trying to turn this into a pissing match, just trying to debunk a piece of cold weather advice that has persisted throughout the years. Because if the advice isn't really valid, then there's no reason to keep it.

Urine is the output of metabolism. When it's produced, it's already at body temperature. It is then kept in the bladder, which is well insulated by the body. There are no major mechanisms of heat loss at work in the bladder (conduction, convection, radiation, and evaporation). So besides the normal energy used for the metabolic process, you don't need a huge amount of energy to keep it at body temperature.

The input of the metabolic process is more important in this case. If you drink cold liquid, then your body would need to use energy to warm it up to body temperature. But if your drink is already at body temperature or warmer, then no extra energy is wasted.
I prefer to write "engineerz drool" in the snow with my pee. I'm usually short on "ink" if you catch my drift.

I pee and sweat a ton. I try to keep my urine from changing to a bright yellow, sometimes it's possible, sometimes not. But, when when the urge hits I'll square the ol shoulders down wind and start spelling "eng". I can understand why women are at a disadvantage for the pee relief, especially when it's above treeline and the wind is whipping. But, i go in excess of once per hour while I'm out. Not sure if it is helping or hurting whst for my body is negligent hest loss, i have plenty to go around....
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Re: Who wants credit for this one?

Post by AndrewLyonsGeibel » Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:27 pm

CaptCO wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:08 pm
Bale wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:58 pm
AndrewLyonsGeibel wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 11:20 am
Just don’t pee into the wind. Other than that. Meh.
And don’t eat yellow snow.
Wait.. you’re telling me the sweet taste isn’t from tree sap? Uh oh :oops:
That means you’re eating diabetic pee.
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Re: Who wants credit for this one?

Post by highpilgrim » Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:29 pm

AndrewLyonsGeibel wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:27 pm
That means you’re eating diabetic pee.
Probably better than asparagus piss.
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Re: Who wants credit for this one?

Post by Bale » Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:57 pm

highpilgrim wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:29 pm
AndrewLyonsGeibel wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:27 pm
That means you’re eating diabetic pee.
Probably better than asparagus piss.
Ha, you beat me to asparagus! That’s potent pee, can you imagine the smell of pissing into a bottle at 17k after eating that stuff?!
The earth, like the sun, like the air, belongs to everyone - and to no one. - Edward Abbey
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