Pronunciation, local or 'Merican?

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Re: Pronunciation, local or 'Merican?

Post by shelly+ » Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:05 pm

greenonion wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:52 am
But how does one pronounce lol in French, English, and Merican?
recklessly. lol
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Re: Pronunciation, local or 'Merican?

Post by timisimaginary » Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:52 pm

greenonion wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:52 am
But how does one pronounce lol in French, English, and Merican?
more importantly, how does one pronounce GIF in any language?
social distancing since the day i was born...
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Re: Pronunciation, local or 'Merican?

Post by Barnold41 » Mon Mar 08, 2021 2:21 pm

timisimaginary wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:52 pm
more importantly, how does one pronounce GIF in any language?
Hard G.
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Re: Pronunciation, local or 'Merican?

Post by greenonion » Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:15 pm

timisimaginary wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:52 pm
greenonion wrote:
Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:52 am
But how does one pronounce lol in French, English, and Merican?
more importantly, how does one pronounce GIF in any language?
I now know that it’s “GEEF” in French!
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Re: Pronunciation, local or 'Merican?

Post by Burkart » Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:39 pm

Oh man, immediately brought to mind those annoying NPR-isms where every reporter tries to outdo the others with the most unnatural, overwrought pronunciation of every remotely Spanish word. You never hear them do that for German or Russian words... maybe occasionally for French (fun fact, there isn't one iota of evidence that "homage," when it was adopted into English from Norman French in the 11th century, was unaspirated; that is to say, the word was probably NEVER pronounced oh-majjjjjj until some revisionist snoot decided to give it a go - here's looking at you (again), NPR).

I personally follow three rules to avoid being a linguistic douche (though I may be guilty as charged in other fields):

1. If there is a widely accepted or historical pronunciation of a foreign word in your language (an exonym), just use it. No need for Farsi when you have Persian. What's the point in saying HEET-lah when you can say Hitler? Why visit MEH-heeco when you can visit Mexico? Keep in mind that you are pronouncing every Greek and Latin word adopted into the English language like a ten year old who has never heard the word as it was originally pronounced

2. If you are using an uncommon foreign word in your language, do NOT try to pronounce it with a sound or pattern that doesn't exist in your language unless absolutely necessary. Eisenach can be pronounced Eye-zin-ock. It breaks the flow of speech when you contort your mouth to accommodate every weird sound they make on the other side of the world - if you go out of your way to do that, you are basically bragging about your ability to (sort of) make sounds that every uneducated rube on the other side of the world can make . That makes you cultured, I guess?

3. If the locals pronounce a word in a way that you are capable of pronouncing without breaking Rule 2, follow their lead. It's Byoonie, damn it, not Boo-AY-na Vista. Some huckster from Ohio probably picked the words out of a Spanish-English dictionary to help sell rail-front plots of land. Chief You-RAY would laugh at you if you called him OO-ray, or his YOOT tribe the OOT. I'm sorry, guys, Regina really does rhyme with vagina.

sanjuanmtneer wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 3:29 pm
Colorado was Spanish territory much longer than it has been U.S.
The first sanctioned Spanish expedition to unambiguously cross into Colorado was in 1694. Spanish "rule," if that's what you want to call the occasional excursion into the area to punish raiding tribes or drive out French traders, formally lasted until 1821. In 1803, the United States purchased its first chunk of Colorado (adjusted to everything northeast of the Arkansas River in 1819); Zebulon Pike made the US presence tangible when he entered the state in 1806 and built a stockade on the Rio Grande in 1807. 1821 - 1694 = 127 < 218 = 2021 - 1803. This is 'Merica now, we'll call it Rio Grand down south and Grand Tit up north if we damn well please. We were even nice enough to give the Spaniards their Spanish Peaks, even though the Ute name, Wahatoya, is a more accurate name by every measure.
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Re: Pronunciation, local or 'Merican?

Post by CaptCO » Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:46 pm

Burkart wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:39 pm
Oh man, immediately brought to mind those annoying NPR-isms where every reporter tries to outdo the others with the most unnatural, overwrought pronunciation of every remotely Spanish word. You never hear them do that for German or Russian words... maybe occasionally for French (fun fact, there isn't one iota of evidence that "homage," when it was adopted into English from Norman French in the 11th century, was unaspirated; that is to say, the word was probably NEVER pronounced oh-majjjjjj until some revisionist snoot decided to give it a go - here's looking at you (again), NPR).

I personally follow three rules to avoid being a linguistic douche (though I may be guilty as charged in other fields):

1. If there is a widely accepted or historical pronunciation of a foreign word in your language (an exonym), just use it. No need for Farsi when you have Persian. What's the point in saying HEET-lah when you can say Hitler? Why visit MEH-heeco when you can visit Mexico? Keep in mind that you are pronouncing every Greek and Latin word adopted into the English language like a ten year old who has never heard the word as it was originally pronounced

2. If you are using an uncommon foreign word in your language, do NOT try to pronounce it with a sound or pattern that doesn't exist in your language unless absolutely necessary. Eisenach can be pronounced Eye-zin-ock. It breaks the flow of speech when you contort your mouth to accommodate every weird sound they make on the other side of the world - if you go out of your way to do that, you are basically bragging about your ability to (sort of) make sounds that every uneducated rube on the other side of the world can make . That makes you cultured, I guess?

3. If the locals pronounce a word in a way that you are capable of pronouncing without breaking Rule 2, follow their lead. It's Byoonie, damn it, not Boo-AY-na Vista. Some huckster from Ohio probably picked the words out of a Spanish-English dictionary to help sell rail-front plots of land. Chief You-RAY would laugh at you if you called him OO-ray, or his YOOT tribe the OOT. I'm sorry, guys, Regina really does rhyme with vagina.

sanjuanmtneer wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 3:29 pm
Colorado was Spanish territory much longer than it has been U.S.
The first sanctioned Spanish expedition to unambiguously cross into Colorado was in 1694. Spanish "rule," if that's what you want to call the occasional excursion into the area to punish raiding tribes or drive out French traders, formally lasted until 1821. In 1803, the United States purchased its first chunk of Colorado (adjusted to everything northeast of the Arkansas River in 1819); Zebulon Pike made the US presence tangible when he entered the state in 1806 and built a stockade on the Rio Grande in 1807. 1821 - 1694 = 127 < 218 = 2021 - 1803. This is 'Merica now, we'll call it Rio Grand down south and Grand Tit up north if we damn well please. We were even nice enough to give the Spaniards their Spanish Peaks, even though the Ute name, Wahatoya, is a more accurate name by every measure.
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Re: Pronunciation, local or 'Merican?

Post by Burkart » Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:59 pm

CaptCO wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:46 pm
I’ll take yikes for $500
Fine by me, Cap. I'll be just fine without a climbing partner who needs SAR to save him whenever he gets off trail. :lol:
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Re: Pronunciation, local or 'Merican?

Post by CaptCO » Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:00 pm

Burkart wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:59 pm
CaptCO wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:46 pm
I’ll take yikes for $500
Fine by me, Cap. I'll be just fine without a climbing partner who needs SAR to save him whenever he gets off trail. :lol:
First time I’ve heard that <3 carry on now elder
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Re: Pronunciation, local or 'Merican?

Post by ker0uac » Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:51 am

Burkart wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:59 pm
CaptCO wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:46 pm
I’ll take yikes for $500
Fine by me, Cap. I'll be just fine without a climbing partner who needs SAR to save him whenever he gets off trail. :lol:
Is this what you meant by "being a douche in other fields"?
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Re: Pronunciation, local or 'Merican?

Post by Barnold41 » Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:25 am

Burkart wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:39 pm
Oh man, immediately brought to mind those annoying NPR-isms where every reporter tries to outdo the others with the most unnatural, overwrought pronunciation of every remotely Spanish word.
You mean their names? That's the only time I hear reporters pronounce properly.
Burkart wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:39 pm
3. If the locals pronounce a word in a way that you are capable of pronouncing without breaking Rule 2, follow their lead. It's Byoonie, damn it, not Boo-AY-na Vista.
The locals are pronouncing the word with ignorance to its Spanish origin (or with complete awareness and condescension). It's a typical American thing to do, including the town of Versailles, Missouri (locals literally say Ver-Sales). While it's ok to claim that the locals are "right," the correct pronunciation is it's French origin.

And it's Bwena Veesta, not Byoona Vista.
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Re: Pronunciation, local or 'Merican?

Post by shelly+ » Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:35 am

Barnold41 wrote:
Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:25 am
The locals are pronouncing the word with ignorance to its Spanish origin (or with complete awareness and condescension). It's a typical American thing to do, including the town of Versailles, Missouri (locals literally say Ver-Sales). While it's ok to claim that the locals are "right," the correct pronunciation is it's French origin.
since 30% of the English language derives from French, i think maybe we're all locals screwing up the language. and anyway, the French like to have their week-end.
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Re: Pronunciation, local or 'Merican?

Post by cedica » Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:10 pm

Burkart wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:39 pm
3. If the locals pronounce a word in a way that you are capable of pronouncing without breaking Rule 2, follow their lead.
So it's Led Tsepelin (after Ferdinand von Zeppelin), stop pronouncing it Zepelin mis amigos por favor.
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