New World Record for all 14 8000 meter Peaks

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timisimaginary
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Re: New World Record for all 14 8000 meter Peaks

Post by timisimaginary » Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:28 pm

where do you draw the line? not only was Nims able to fly to certain peaks, and have fixed lines available, etc. he also had the benefit of modern gear that is lighter and warmer and more durable and better quality than what Kukuczka or Messner or previous climbers used, he had more route beta, different weather, no Hillary Step, etc etc etc.

all records are, to some extent or another, "apples vs. oranges" because times change, gear changes, conditions change, and this is especially true in mountaineering where so many variables on any given climb are beyond human control. but even other sports have this problem. look at quarterback records for touchdowns and yards in the NFL, how do you compare modern QBs to ones from past eras when the game has changed so much and become so much more of a passing game? look at all the home run records in baseball, is it because the balls were juiced, or because some new undetectable PED is out there, or is it just because pitchers throw harder, hitters lift more weights, and guys are trying to hit home runs more than they did in the past? even something as simple as running has become controversial, thanks to Nike Vaporfly's and all the controversy over how the shoes are constructed and whether they should be banned from competition, in which case what happens to all those new running records set by people wearing those shoes?

i think it all goes to show that the focus on records in general is pretty silly. Nims did something amazing that very few people would ever be capable of that, and regardless of whether it's a record, or a new category of record, or just an impressive accomplishment, doesn't really matter. in 10 years someone will probably do it faster anyhow.
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cedica
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Re: New World Record for all 14 8000 meter Peaks

Post by cedica » Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:07 am

timisimaginary wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:28 pm
where do you draw the line?
Too late for that, the line was drawn in 1922 when Brits "rode a (oxygen) tank and held a general's rank" on Everest.
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Re: New World Record for all 14 8000 meter Peaks

Post by dereferenced » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:05 am

nsaladin wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 3:07 pm
And then there's this: https://explorersweb.com/2019/10/25/man ... ue-summit/
Wow, that link made me a bit confused and unhappy. It's possible that I stopped at a foresummit and didn't even realize it. I stopped where the ropes stopped, there were some foot steps beyond, going about 10 feet higher up the snow to the left, apparently right onto a cornice. Everyone else was celebrating here, and it matched the details of the true summit, from my pre-trip research. I figured that standing on a cornice unroped was a bad idea. Also, it was cloudy enough that I wouldn't even get a view to the south if I did.

The place I stopped looks very much like the one marked c2 in those photos.

Prior to the trip, I tried to do my homework on the issue and used this page for advice:
https://www.markhorrell.com/blog/2016/h ... mit-claim/

Mark Horrell claimed there were 2 foresummits and then a corniced true summit. I climbed the thing that he marked as the true summit in his two photos but, like him, I did not stand on the cornice. Explorersweb's page is in conflict with Mark Horrell's. Mark's true summit looks like their point c2. They think you have to go 20m further south and there's a higher point, c4. I don't know, I didn't climb up the cornice to look to the south.

This video from Nims looks like it was taken from the top of point c2, and the guys wearing red are roughly where I stopped.
https://www.instagram.com/p/B3hTGW_jacU/
It's not 100% clear, though, like Nims is on a rope and I recall no rope in that exact spot.

Of course, he might have gone further and just not posted that particular picture to instragram. Dude's a very strong climber, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt.

I guess I can't see why this matters for most people. 90% of the climbers this year used oxygen and sherpas, the route was fixed almost the entire way from crampon point to the summit. Some were even being short roped. ("Sherpa! drag me 20 meters further! I don't want an asterisk!")

Congrats to Nims on a huge accomplishment!
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Eli Boardman
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Re: New World Record for all 14 8000 meter Peaks

Post by Eli Boardman » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:25 am

Scott P wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:18 am
If someone had access to air support, drove nearly to the top of Evans and Pikes, and flew into places like Chicago Basin, Snowmass Lake, Capitol Lake, etc., but still summitted all of the peaks, would it still be the 14er record?
Yeah, right, because fixing the ropes on K2 is comparable to flying most of the way up a 14er. :lol: And Scott, you and I both know that neither of us is qualified to compare our own experience, "high altitude" or otherwise, to the 8000 meter range.

The difference is that on the 14ers, the majority of the "effort" or "difficulty" or "achievement" has to do with the cumulative physical endurance and strenuousness of the multitude of hikes. On the 8000 meter peaks, to the best of my (limited) knowledge, the primary problems all have to do with the last few thousand feet, due to some combination of weather, pure fitness, route condition, and luck. Maybe this record was luck, maybe it was a record in logistics, or weather forecasting, or whatever, but one thing I know for sure: it's not hiking to basecamp that makes an 8000m peak difficult.

I think a better analogy is this: compare the first 14er record, ostensibly set by McCarty in 1960 (52 days), to the modern attempts. The modern attempts have the benefit of extensive beta, modern ultra-running equipment and training, and full support for the runner. Some of the oldest 14er timed attempts probably didn't even have established trails on all of the peaks.

Overall, I think Nims's record epitomizes the modern era of speed mountaineering: beta-intensive, and focused on optimizing logistics and fitness.
Last edited by Eli Boardman on Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Eli Boardman
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Re: New World Record for all 14 8000 meter Peaks

Post by Eli Boardman » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:35 am

Also, Idk if it's been mentioned yet, but Nims is a really gracious and nice guy in person. I got to meet him and his team on Aconcagua last December, and when he told us about this plan, I really thought it was impossible, simply because of the apparent danger stats on the hardest 8000ers. Congrats Nims!

Nims at 5000m on Aconcagua:
nims.JPG
nims.JPG (45.53 KiB) Viewed 1246 times
Also, congrats to Mingma on simultaneously becoming the youngest person to finish the 14 8000ers!

I have to brag with my one and only "celebrity" photo, also at 5000m (C1) Aconcagua:
mingma.jpg
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nsaladin
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Re: New World Record for all 14 8000 meter Peaks

Post by nsaladin » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:49 am

http://www.alanarnette.com/blog/2019/10 ... pangma-14/


Screen Shot 2019-10-30 at 11.53.15 AM.png
Screen Shot 2019-10-30 at 11.53.15 AM.png (92.32 KiB) Viewed 1225 times
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mtn_nut
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Re: New World Record for all 14 8000 meter Peaks

Post by mtn_nut » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:57 am

Eli Boardman wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:25 am
I think a better analogy is this: compare the first 14er record, ostensibly set by McCarty in 1960 (52 days), to the modern attempts. The modern attempts have the benefit of extensive beta, modern ultra-running equipment and training, and full support for the runner. Some of the oldest 14er timed attempts probably didn't even have established trails on all of the peaks.
Also consider all the improvements in roads and trailheads between the 1960s and now. I'm sure there were a lot less paved highways and passes back then, and vehicles weren't traveling nearly as fast.
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Scott P
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Re: New World Record for all 14 8000 meter Peaks

Post by Scott P » Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:18 pm

Eli Boardman wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:25 am
Scott P wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:18 am
If someone had access to air support, drove nearly to the top of Evans and Pikes, and flew into places like Chicago Basin, Snowmass Lake, Capitol Lake, etc., but still summitted all of the peaks, would it still be the 14er record?
Yeah, right, because fixing the ropes on K2 is comparable to flying most of the way up a 14er. :lol: And Scott, you and I both know that neither of us is qualified to compare our own experience, "high altitude" or otherwise, to the 8000 meter range.
That was just an analogy rather than an apples to apples comparison.

You and some others are missing the point. The point I was making isn't that Nims somehow cheated or that the climbs were somehow a sub-par (Nims is great in my opinion), but that it's a different kind of record than the one broken.

I have mentioned many times that anyone should be able to choose their own style of climbing and that to me it doesn't matter how he climbed the peaks.

So, if I'm not concerned with his chosen style, why did I bring it up? The answer is simple. Because I'm interested in mountaineering history and especially Himalayan history. This is mountaineering history. Thus my interest. I am interested in seeing how this plays out in the record books.
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Barnold41
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Re: New World Record for all 14 8000 meter Peaks

Post by Barnold41 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:32 pm

Amazing accomplishment! Modern man doing modern things.
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SkaredShtles
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Re: New World Record for all 14 8000 meter Peaks

Post by SkaredShtles » Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:40 pm

14ers.com participant: "I don't want to argue!"

Also, same participant:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpAvcGcEc0k
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Re: New World Record for all 14 8000 meter Peaks

Post by Broken Knee » Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:31 pm

Scott P wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:18 pm
You and some others are missing the point. The point I was making isn't that Nims somehow cheated or that the climbs were somehow a sub-par (Nims is great in my opinion), but that it's a different kind of record than the one broken.

I have mentioned many times that anyone should be able to choose their own style of climbing and that to me it doesn't matter how he climbed the peaks.
A style is a convention. It's something a person chooses when there is no fundamental principle to follow. I totally understand where you're coming from. Maybe Nims just reduced the standard too many clicks at once for your sensibility?
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XterraRob
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Re: New World Record for all 14 8000 meter Peaks

Post by XterraRob » Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:34 pm

Talk about a good weather window.
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