Early starts and feeling sick

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Scary_Canary
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Joined: 11/9/2018
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by Scary_Canary »

TomPierce wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 12:41 pm Scary,

OK, fair enough, sorry you're going through this. The triggers (or non-triggers...) are baffling given all the data you've shared. Fwiw, solely what I'd do: For sure talk to a good doc, probably a GI specialist? I'd hate to hear you tried various solutions when the causation was, in fact, something hidden and more serious. I'll share probably more than I should: Years ago my mom, who lived alone, was complaining of severe abdominal pain. I took her to the ER, had the usual battery of tests done, X-rays, etc. The doc's diagnosis (and yeah, a full blown M.D): constipation with an unstated tone of it-was-in-her-head. I left the ER with her and a prescription for a laxative in hand. Two days later another doc called from an ER at another hospital. She was in complaining of the same pain, he found she had an abdominal tumor the size of a large orange, he was going to operate within hours. She later passed away, years ago, from cancer.

I certainly do not want to be alarmist at all, but maybe get the bad possibilities eliminated soon, then experiment once those are ruled out?

I wish you the best of luck & good health.

-Tom
Tom,

Wow. I appreciate the story a lot, thank you for sharing that about your Mother. I'm so sorry to hear about her loss.
If you don't mind me asking, in her second visit to the ER, what had they done in that visit, that they missed the first time around in the testing?

My dad had something kind of similar with prostate cancer. He went to the docs, feeling like something was wrong. He had xrays done that showed a tumor growing, they gave him the option of surgery, or radiation therapy. He chose surgery, and in doing the surgery, they found another hidden tumor about 3x the size of the original one. That would most likely never been discovered otherwise, and wouldn't have been targeted by the radiation had he chose that. Thankful doesnt begin to describe his decision on doing surgery that day. He had another battle with it later on, but he's still here through all of that.

I am to the point now where seeing a specialist is about what I've got left. To rule out anything, whether it be good or bad. At this point, any bit of info helps.
In asking here, I'm pretty shocked seeing how many people experience this feeling in one way or another, even some to the extremes I do.
Its beginning to be a desperate feeling for me to figure out what I can do to not feel so awful.
It's been super helpful hearing what others here have done, or ideas on what triggers them in the first place.
shelly+ wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 1:16 pm i understand, Tom. thanks. Canary, i'm focused on a few details here, specifically the puking and another mention of headache with puking. it's counterintuitive but both are related to food for me. i feel too sick to eat... but if i eat the *right* foods, my body feels waaay better. and this happens *only* for early starts at 14er THs (sometimes if i'm up early for other hikes elsewhere). it's not altitude sickness, although altitude certainly adds an element of stress on my body in this circumstance.
Shelly,
My headaches are usually pretty rare, thankfully but I have had them get so bad I throw up. They usually come on within minutes, and go full blown debilitating within about 15 or so. They also dissipate fairly quick, but leave me reeling in a haze for hours after. However, I've only had a severe headache 2x in the hills. Not sure the trigger for those, other than spring time.

I usually try to eat a lot of protein dense foods, and complex carbs the day before my hikes, and hydrate like crazy. Sushi/fish is usually what has worked best for me on days where my tummy hasn't hated me. But sometimes, sushi is my worst enemy too. Hamburgers have worked amazing as well, but also have been my demise.
If I eat something, and the result is me feeling good the next day, I repeat that exact scenario for my next week. But what works one week, never works the next...
Sometimes my stomach won't digest a single thing I've eaten the entire day, and it shows when I throw up.
Other times, im just throwing up globs and globs of acid.
I take an antacid after dinner the night before my hike to try and reduce that as much as possible..

I seriously hate it.


What types of meals do you typically eat in your day before you go into the mountains? Any suggestions? Haha
The risk I took was calculated, but I'm terrible at math.
Scary_Canary
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by Scary_Canary »

nyker wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 4:42 am
As others mention maybe there was an anxiety component as well, but then often that was linked to me not feeling well so little bit of a vicious cycle.
I've definitely considered this as a possibility haha.
Worry that I wont feel well, in turn making me not feel well.

At this point I've come to the acceptance phase that I'm most likely going to get sick, and will deal with that when it happens. Just part of the morning now. If it doesn't happen, I'm super happy! I consider me not getting sick through the day an accomplishment now haha.
The risk I took was calculated, but I'm terrible at math.
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disentangled
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by disentangled »

Scary_Canary wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 9:07 am
TomPierce wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 12:41 pm Scary,

OK, fair enough, sorry you're going through this. The triggers (or non-triggers...) are baffling given all the data you've shared. Fwiw, solely what I'd do: For sure talk to a good doc, probably a GI specialist? I'd hate to hear you tried various solutions when the causation was, in fact, something hidden and more serious. I'll share probably more than I should: Years ago my mom, who lived alone, was complaining of severe abdominal pain. I took her to the ER, had the usual battery of tests done, X-rays, etc. The doc's diagnosis (and yeah, a full blown M.D): constipation with an unstated tone of it-was-in-her-head. I left the ER with her and a prescription for a laxative in hand. Two days later another doc called from an ER at another hospital. She was in complaining of the same pain, he found she had an abdominal tumor the size of a large orange, he was going to operate within hours. She later passed away, years ago, from cancer.

I certainly do not want to be alarmist at all, but maybe get the bad possibilities eliminated soon, then experiment once those are ruled out?

I wish you the best of luck & good health.

-Tom
Tom,

Wow. I appreciate the story a lot, thank you for sharing that about your Mother. I'm so sorry to hear about her loss.
If you don't mind me asking, in her second visit to the ER, what had they done in that visit, that they missed the first time around in the testing?

My dad had something kind of similar with prostate cancer. He went to the docs, feeling like something was wrong. He had xrays done that showed a tumor growing, they gave him the option of surgery, or radiation therapy. He chose surgery, and in doing the surgery, they found another hidden tumor about 3x the size of the original one. That would most likely never been discovered otherwise, and wouldn't have been targeted by the radiation had he chose that. Thankful doesnt begin to describe his decision on doing surgery that day. He had another battle with it later on, but he's still here through all of that.

I am to the point now where seeing a specialist is about what I've got left. To rule out anything, whether it be good or bad. At this point, any bit of info helps.
In asking here, I'm pretty shocked seeing how many people experience this feeling in one way or another, even some to the extremes I do.
Its beginning to be a desperate feeling for me to figure out what I can do to not feel so awful.
It's been super helpful hearing what others here have done, or ideas on what triggers them in the first place.
shelly+ wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 1:16 pm i understand, Tom. thanks. Canary, i'm focused on a few details here, specifically the puking and another mention of headache with puking. it's counterintuitive but both are related to food for me. i feel too sick to eat... but if i eat the *right* foods, my body feels waaay better. and this happens *only* for early starts at 14er THs (sometimes if i'm up early for other hikes elsewhere). it's not altitude sickness, although altitude certainly adds an element of stress on my body in this circumstance.
Shelly,
My headaches are usually pretty rare, thankfully but I have had them get so bad I throw up. They usually come on within minutes, and go full blown debilitating within about 15 or so. They also dissipate fairly quick, but leave me reeling in a haze for hours after. However, I've only had a severe headache 2x in the hills. Not sure the trigger for those, other than spring time.

I usually try to eat a lot of protein dense foods, and complex carbs the day before my hikes, and hydrate like crazy. Sushi/fish is usually what has worked best for me on days where my tummy hasn't hated me. But sometimes, sushi is my worst enemy too. Hamburgers have worked amazing as well, but also have been my demise.
If I eat something, and the result is me feeling good the next day, I repeat that exact scenario for my next week. But what works one week, never works the next...
Sometimes my stomach won't digest a single thing I've eaten the entire day, and it shows when I throw up.
Other times, im just throwing up globs and globs of acid.
I take an antacid after dinner the night before my hike to try and reduce that as much as possible..

I seriously hate it.


What types of meals do you typically eat in your day before you go into the mountains? Any suggestions? Haha
sending a PM.
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mtree
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by mtree »

I think you and others are overthinking things or simply in denial. Its really sounding like altitude sickness. Anxiety, maybe, or certainly a contributing factor. But all the symptoms and surrounding evidence points to altitude as the primary culprit. Your symptoms may not happen all the time for a variety of reasons too numerous to correlate.

I had a friend who would get altitude sickness on occasion. It was never something he could pinpoint. Sometimes a severe headache. Sometimes vomiting. And sometimes just feeling like crap. And the symptoms would hit at all kinds times; during a hike, after, or even in the night long after he's back home. Other times he'd feel like a million bucks and could crank out the miles like nothing. Weird.

As for what to do? I dunno. Be careful and live with it I guess. Docs seem to be eliminating any major health concerns so that's a good thing. Your headaches could be a migraine and those can also carry visual impairment. But if you haven't had visual problems you probably won't. Migraines can also manifest symptoms of nausea and vomiting... and without a headache! Otherwise, just keep on trekking.
- I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was blaming you.
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Rainier_Wolfcastle
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by Rainier_Wolfcastle »

Scary,

I’ve got a lot of experience with something that sounds like what you get. Common variables for me: not really well acclimated to elevation I’m sleeping at...always first night at that elevation, eat once I get there...or maybe at restaurant within an hour of th, go to bed within a full stomach. Sleep okay, but feel elevated heart rate...maybe wake up gasping a few times...wake up before alarm with headache...quickly gets worse, within minutes I run to hurl. For 1-2 hours I feel like I am goin to die...then force myself to get up, nibble on something...hour later feel fine. Never happens on 2nd+ day of camping up high...no matter how late I eat...

This happened after eating ramen once I got to camp 4 times...capitol (still summited, just 2 hours later than planned), Cotopaxi in Ecuador of all places and still summited, north apostle...cost us Ice and west apostle, one other time...never got out of camp. How I know it is not nerves though, is that after getting ~100 summits, three straight times when trying to get simple Stewart Peak from an 11k+ car camp with my wife, this happened to me and I would just ask my wife to drive use home. Common thing is we always drove up from Denver in late afternoon...ate big meal in Gunnison..finished drive and went to sleep.

Lesson’s learned: acclimate when sleeping 10k and above...get there early...maybe spend a night at 8k and drive rest in morning, no more ramen for me...ever :-& , if have to push it...eat moderate amount earlier....keep moving around and get most of it digested before going to sleep. Otherwise, out of fear of it, I had a lot of midnight wake-up calls with drives to th...then directly to hiking...though sometimes after the hike the lack of acclimation/sleep leaves me with a headache.

Hope that helps!
Shawn
TomPierce
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by TomPierce »

Scary,

The story with my mom. Having seen how more serious things can be overlooked, that's my concern. You have a similar story with your dad's cancer. Super glad to hear they caught things with him when they did. But to your question: The first doc, to be candid, seemed to have an attitude, dismissive. So he ordered upper GI tract imagery, but didn't bother to look a few inches lower where the tumor was. She was complaining of abdominal pain, so maybe examine the entire abdomen? The second doc that found the tumor 2 days later was pretty flabbergasted that it was missed, it was so big they couldn't wait for me to get from CO to NM before operating. Not a good story, obviously.

Sounds like you're asking all the right questions and just my opinion, I think going to a specialist can't be a bad thing, if only to rule some things out. I wish you good luck and good health!

-Tom
Scary_Canary
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by Scary_Canary »

mtree wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 9:56 am I think you and others are overthinking things or simply in denial. Its really sounding like altitude sickness.
I'd like to wish it was, but to be honest, just from how I experience things I'd have to disagree.
I'm no expert on the subject to be fair, but just based on how I work I suppose.


Elevation I'm sure plays a minor factor and what I would assume would be the reason for my elevated heart rate while sleeping. However, if it was a major issue going up higher in elevation would only seem to complicate things, not improve them. Typically after I've had a few miles to settle, get it all out and the sun comes up I'm a whole new person. Its just in the mornings. Unless morning altutude sickness is a thing? If not, I'm making it a thing now.
The risk I took was calculated, but I'm terrible at math.
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mtree
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by mtree »

I guess you've self diagnosed n eliminated most of the input on this thread. Good for you. Who needs docs when you have 14ers.com!

My money is on altitude sickness. Happy trails.
- I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was blaming you.
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JChitwood
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by JChitwood »

Try not starting early. I always hike slow and feel lousy starting early and by early I mean 7 am not midnight like the nutty people at Long’s trailhead. Way more than half my summits are after 3 pm afternoon hiking is glorious and if I’ve got to hike in the dark I’d much rather do it coming down. Yes that pretty much takes out the month of July and half of August and I’m lucky in that I can choose my hiking days and go when there is a low chance of weather. Even in July of a strong monsoon year there are a few clear afternoons. Give it a shot this season you never know.
"I'll make it." - Jimmy Chitwood
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by Bigperm »

Increased heart rate while you’re still in the fart sack sounds like an altitude effect. Q: what if you drive up to the mountains and not climb anything, do you still get the pukes? High HR? Lots of chemistry going on in the blood when you go to altitude. It’s all relative, just because you’re not heading up to camp 1 from Everest base camp doesn’t mean the 3000ft from Denver to the mountains is insignificant. Could also be a circadian rhythm thing. Again, chemicals are flowing when they normally do not. Just some thoughts.
Scary_Canary
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by Scary_Canary »

mtree wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 5:47 pm I guess you've self diagnosed n eliminated most of the input on this thread. Good for you. Who needs docs when you have 14ers.com!

My money is on altitude sickness. Happy trails.
Not sure what's with the attitude Mtree?
Sorry for offending you in saying I disagree with the altitude sickness part, but I'm just not convinced it is.

I absolutely did go to see my doctor about this, before coming here. Through my descriptions, she didnt believe it to be altitude sickness either. She believed it more along the lines of acid reflux or blood sugar issues. I have done lots of experimenting around with that since, but also haven't found consistent results.

Asking here seemed like a logical next step to me. Maybe someone else could relate and offer advice. Bouncing around ideas on a subject isn't bad thing, atleast its a change up from the mask polls.
I have had many great responses from people in here, and very solid advice from Shelly+ who seems to have experienced similar problems to what I have.
The risk I took was calculated, but I'm terrible at math.
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mtree
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Re: Early starts and feeling sick

Post by mtree »

Denial is not the river in Egypt.
- I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was blaming you.
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