Overweight climbers.

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bergsteigen
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Re: Overweight climbers.

Post by bergsteigen » Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:31 pm

Jorts wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:52 pm
bergsteigen wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:29 pm
Simple. In the great human experiment with diets, veganism is a new fad, and as such there isn’t much scientific evidence to say what will happen to individuals on the diet over the long term. Health problems usually start in ones 40s and 50s. Let alone what developmental issues will happen to children on the diet. We’re only just now finding out how bad high fructose corn syrup is and other “modern” advances in food tech from the past century that have ruined our bodies!

At least we all still get to choose what we wish to eat. So we get to make our own experiments with diet. For me, I’m celiac with intolerances for dairy, legumes and excessive carbohydrate consumption - so vegan is very very unhealthy diet choice for my body.
That's fair. I don't think there is much long-term evidence out there to support (or reject) a strictly vegan diet in the long term. Although those ancient Dharmic traditions (buddhism, hinduism, sikhism) were all plant-based and had longevity.

And yet meat-based diets high in red meat and processed meat lead to increased risk of cardiovascular disease, cancer, diabetes, and premature death. That's not disputed.

https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/news/2020/new ... 20causes.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying- ... h-red-meat
Sorry, try again, it is very much disputed by science. Science >> feelings.

https://robbwolf.com/2015/01/16/red-mea ... -response/

Why I eat kale/broccoli/Brussel sprouts with my steak:

https://www.thepaleomom.com/the-link-be ... nd-cancer/
"Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games." - Ernest Hemingway (or was it Barnaby Conrad?)
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Re: Overweight climbers.

Post by Jorts » Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:49 pm

bergsteigen wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:31 pm
Science >> feelings.
That made me chuckle. I posted a link to a peer reviewed study funded partially by the National Heart Lung and Blood Institute and the NIH from Feb 2020 and you posted paleo propaganda in response. Cool. You're right. I'm just an emotional moron that rejects science.
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Re: Overweight climbers.

Post by peter303 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:54 pm

My best marathon runs were when I lost a fewpounds before the race.
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Re: Overweight climbers.

Post by bergsteigen » Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:04 pm

Jorts wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:49 pm
bergsteigen wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 5:31 pm
Science >> feelings.
That made me chuckle. I posted a link to a peer reviewed study funded partially by the National Heart Lung and Blood Institute and the NIH from Feb 2020 and you posted paleo propaganda in response. Cool. You're right. I'm just an emotional moron that rejects science.
Did you actually read the second one at all? In science, there is usually a reference section. I’m a published research scientist ;) We don’t make it up. So when you scroll to the bottom (or actually read the article) there are links to peer reviewed articles!!! Like OMG! Haha try again.
"Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games." - Ernest Hemingway (or was it Barnaby Conrad?)
Your knees only get so many bumps in life, don't waste them on moguls!
“No athlete is truly tested until they’ve stared an injury in the face and come out on the other side stronger than ever” -anonymous

http://otinasadventures.com @otina
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Re: Overweight climbers.

Post by Wildernessjane » Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:04 pm

You’ll find SO much conflicting information out there advocating for this or that diet, timing of carbs, best ways to engage in intermittent fasting, etc. My advice is to just use common sense by minimizing processed foods, eating plenty of fruits and vegetables, consuming high quality meat products when you do eat meat, and consuming fat and/or protein with carbs to balance out blood sugar levels. Most importantly, develop good habits now that you are able to sustain for life. Moderation is key. I’ve tried to adopt a 80/20 rule so that I’m not feeling like I’m missing out on anything. Sure it’s all about calories in versus calories out but eating healthy will improve how you feel and your ability to put in big days in the mountains (not to mention recover from such outings).
“Climb mountains not so the world can see you, but so you can see the world.” -David McCullough?
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Re: Overweight climbers.

Post by Jorts » Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:37 pm

bergsteigen wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:04 pm
Did you actually read the second one at all? In science, there is usually a reference section. I’m a published research scientist ;) We don’t make it up. So when you scroll to the bottom (or actually read the article) there are links to peer reviewed articles!!! Like OMG! Haha try again.
MYYYY FACTS ARE BETTER THAN YOOOOOOOOUR FACTS is what this somehow devolved to.

Look, you're not disagreeing with some vegan disciple. I eat meat. Just not a lot of it. Though, I suspect I'm disagreeing with someone who is a member of the crossfit and/or paleo cult. For a published research scientist, you're strangely dismissive of any evidence that contradicts the conclusion you have already come to.

I made the decision to reduce my meat consumption with a lot of reading and consideration. I find the whole meat thing similar to alcohol. A little is fine, don't go overboard. You clearly have your mind made up and nothing would ever change it.

Now I'm going to go stress eat some extra firm tofu blocks and funnel some macadamia milk.
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Re: Overweight climbers.

Post by bergsteigen » Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:58 pm

Jorts wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:37 pm
bergsteigen wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:04 pm
Did you actually read the second one at all? In science, there is usually a reference section. I’m a published research scientist ;) We don’t make it up. So when you scroll to the bottom (or actually read the article) there are links to peer reviewed articles!!! Like OMG! Haha try again.
MYYYY FACTS ARE BETTER THAN YOOOOOOOOUR FACTS is what this somehow devolved to.

Look, you're not disagreeing with some vegan disciple. I eat meat. Just not a lot of it. Though, I suspect I'm disagreeing with someone who is a member of the crossfit and/or paleo cult. For a published research scientist, you're strangely dismissive of any evidence that contradicts the conclusion you have already come to.

I made the decision to reduce my meat consumption with a lot of reading and consideration. I find the whole meat thing similar to alcohol. A little is fine, don't go overboard. You clearly have your mind made up and nothing would ever change it.

Now I'm going to go stress eat some extra firm tofu blocks and funnel some macadamia milk.
You are correct. It does come down to what you believe to be true in science, especially when there is conflict with the results. With time I hope it will be more resolved so that lay people can understand the science. I didn’t believe much of it at first either, it’s called cognitive dissonance when you hear evidence that differs from what you strongly believe. But with time and a lot of reading research, I changed my mind. So it goes!

Enjoy all the phytoestrogens in tofu. I hear estrogen makes women emotional :wink:

In case you’re interested: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25587246/
Phytoestrogens are present in certain edible plants being most abundant in soy; they are structurally and functionally analogous to the estrogens. Phytoestrogens have been applied for compensation of hormone deficiency in the menopause. At the same time, soy products are used in infant food and other foodstuffs. Furthermore, soy is applied as animal fodder, so that residual phytoestrogens and their active metabolites such as equol can remain in meat and influence the hormonal balance of the consumers. There have been only singular reports on modified gender-related behavior or feminization in humans in consequence of soy consumption. In animals, the intake of phytoestrogens was reported to impact fertility, sexual development and behavior. Feminizing effects in humans can be subtle and identifiable only statistically in large populations.
"Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games." - Ernest Hemingway (or was it Barnaby Conrad?)
Your knees only get so many bumps in life, don't waste them on moguls!
“No athlete is truly tested until they’ve stared an injury in the face and come out on the other side stronger than ever” -anonymous

http://otinasadventures.com @otina
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Re: Overweight climbers.

Post by pvnisher » Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:16 pm

I buy a case of regular Coke, then when it's gone switch to Coke Zero. I figure it'll balance out between cancer and diabetes. Everything in moderation.
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Re: Overweight climbers.

Post by onebyone » Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:24 pm

Cut all your portions in half but eat what you want. If you're out and order a burger, eat half, bring the other half home.
If you want some chocolate chip cookies, eat 2 not 5.
Smoothies for lunch work well versus a full meal. If you are not super hungry at dinner time, you don't need to eat a full meal. Have a snack instead.

Point being, if you are doing moderate exercise, nothing crazy, you don't have to do all these sophisticated diets. Eat what you want, just cut it in half.

That's my 2 cents.
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Re: Overweight climbers.

Post by Jorts » Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:26 pm

bergsteigen wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:58 pm
Enjoy all the phytoestrogens in tofu. I hear estrogen makes women emotional :wink:

In case you’re interested: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25587246/
Phytoestrogens are present in certain edible plants being most abundant in soy; they are structurally and functionally analogous to the estrogens. Phytoestrogens have been applied for compensation of hormone deficiency in the menopause. At the same time, soy products are used in infant food and other foodstuffs. Furthermore, soy is applied as animal fodder, so that residual phytoestrogens and their active metabolites such as equol can remain in meat and influence the hormonal balance of the consumers. There have been only singular reports on modified gender-related behavior or feminization in humans in consequence of soy consumption. In animals, the intake of phytoestrogens was reported to impact fertility, sexual development and behavior. Feminizing effects in humans can be subtle and identifiable only statistically in large populations.
Oh man. I was being facetious. Thought it was obvious.

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Re: Overweight climbers.

Post by Flyingfish » Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:08 pm

Jorts wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:26 pm
bergsteigen wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:58 pm
Enjoy all the phytoestrogens in tofu. I hear estrogen makes women emotional :wink:

In case you’re interested: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25587246/
Phytoestrogens are present in certain edible plants being most abundant in soy; they are structurally and functionally analogous to the estrogens. Phytoestrogens have been applied for compensation of hormone deficiency in the menopause. At the same time, soy products are used in infant food and other foodstuffs. Furthermore, soy is applied as animal fodder, so that residual phytoestrogens and their active metabolites such as equol can remain in meat and influence the hormonal balance of the consumers. There have been only singular reports on modified gender-related behavior or feminization in humans in consequence of soy consumption. In animals, the intake of phytoestrogens was reported to impact fertility, sexual development and behavior. Feminizing effects in humans can be subtle and identifiable only statistically in large populations.
Oh man. I was being facetious. Thought it was obvious.

Now now, if we are getting into phytoestrogens we have to talk about the estrogen that is present in milk as well.

To truly answer OP’s question about losing weight the ideal way revolves on the idea that it is hard to restrict your number of calories in effectively and efficiently so for the majority of people the ideal way to lose weight specifically fat is to increase exercise quantity. To lose weight calories in needs to be less than calories out. Fat is utilized by all people at low intensity exercise and during heart rate recovery after high intensity exercise with the high amount of muscle mass you have the more this post exercise burn is. What exercise physiologists prescribe to our clients is a mixture of long duration, low intensity exercise and HIIT training. This maximizes fitness gain while allowing for fat loss.

Most Americans do not reach our minimum daily exercise totals so increasing yours will help move you towards those goals.
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Re: Overweight climbers.

Post by LetsGoMets » Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:03 am

“You must eat red meat to be strong. You must drink dairy milk to be strong.“

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