14ers.com

Everything should require a permit, bottleneck access and force people to move to Idaho with FireOnTheMountain.

Tourism is a huge industry here. I wonder how Estes feels about limiting the number of visitors to the park. My wife and I spend 3-5 nights every summer in Estes and love to be able to go in and out of the park when ever we want. A reservation system is a turn off for us. No more Estes trips for us. Sad.

Thank Instagram for this. And gapers love affair with Elk.

Scott P wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:23 am When every parking space is filled and every shuttle bus taken, what's the park to do? They can either have a reservation system so you know you will have a space when you get there or they can turn away people once everything is full. Is the latter really better than the former? What would be an alternate solution? Making the park into a big parking lot really isn't a viable solution.

Definitely a lot of truth to this. I suppose the question is how difficult (aka impossible) will it be to actually get a reservation? Looks like if I want to do some planned routes in that area I'll be getting up at 2:30am...

rperth wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:28 pm Tourism is a huge industry here. I wonder how Estes feels about limiting the number of visitors to the park. My wife and I spend 3-5 nights every summer in Estes and love to be able to go in and out of the park when ever we want. A reservation system is a turn off for us. No more Estes trips for us. Sad.

I have spent at least some time in RMNP in 39 of the last 41 years, including at least six weeks a year over the last ten years or so.

No more. As to how EP feels about it? I can tell you our landlords are not happy.

What other areas would be suggested? I would like to keep the drive from Omaha to ten hours at the most. Thank you in advance.

benmangelsdorf wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:18 pm My only wish is that anyone who needs to stop in the middle of the road for ten minutes to look at an elk while there are 20 cars behind them would visit Lone Elk Park in Saint Louis, Missouri rather than RMNP. Plenty of elk to check out there

Don’t send your problems to mizzery. We got enough of our own without even counting Parson and Greitens.

highpilgrim wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:39 pm

benmangelsdorf wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:18 pm My only wish is that anyone who needs to stop in the middle of the road for ten minutes to look at an elk while there are 20 cars behind them would visit Lone Elk Park in Saint Louis, Missouri rather than RMNP. Plenty of elk to check out there

Don’t send your problems to mizzery. We got enough of our own without even counting Parson and Greitens.

These Coloradans might know the joy of watching the sun rise over glistening, snow-capped peaks, but they will never know the true beauty of the mighty mountains of the Ozark Massif (or toasted raviolis).

RMNP is far from the most visited national park yet they have a reservation system and an entry fee which the most-visited national park does not. How do these decisions get made - I'm not saying they're right or wrong but I don't follow the logic. Do the state governments have a say in this?

Great Smoky Mountain National Park 2020 visitations: 12.1M - no reservation system in place or planned as far as I can find, and $0 entry fee
Rocky Mountain National Park 2020 visitations: 3.3M - reservations required and $25/car entry fee

https://www.nps.gov/aboutus/visitation-numbers.htm

Alpine Guy wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:40 pm RMNP is far from the most visited national park yet they have a reservation system and an entry fee which the most-visited national park does not. How do these decisions get made - I'm not saying they're right or wrong but I don't follow the logic. Do the state governments have a say in this?

Great Smoky Mountain National Park 2020 visitations: 12.1M - no reservation system in place or planned as far as I can find, and $0 entry fee
Rocky Mountain National Park 2020 visitations: 3.3M - reservations required and $25/car entry fee

https://www.nps.gov/aboutus/visitation-numbers.htm

The Tennessee section of the park road was deeded to the NPS only if no fee would be charged. For the NPS to be legally allowed to charge fees, the state legislature would have to remove the deed. So the NPS only doesn’t charge because it can’t.

Thanks Dwoodward - that at least explains the fee difference.

people seem to have a confused understanding about the concept of "public ownership" in this country. it doesn't mean anybody can go anywhere they want or do anything they want as long as the land is publicly owned. roads are publicly owned, that doesn't mean you can drive as fast as you want on them, or use them as the location of your next barbecue. police cars are publicly owned, but i would strongly advise against just anyone getting into one and driving away.

"public" ownership actually means "government" ownership, and that gov't, whether it's local, state or federal, can make rules and regulations on how that property or land is used. ideally, the actual "public" should be involved in decisions on those rules and regulations, at least the major ones (we are involved to the extent that we vote for or against the people who end up actually making those rules and regulations). but regardless, we are obligated to abide by the decisions made by the owner, whether that owner is private (business/individual) or public (gov't).

so just because the land is "public" you're still not allowed to go in unauthorized and leave your s**t all over the place. that's true whether that public land is a national park or the Capitol building.

Will this impact accessing Longs TH?