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Re: New to Mountaineering

Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:34 am
by Conor
Jorts wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:29 am
Eli Boardman wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:32 pm
I was assuming the OP wants to get started with average Rockies mountaineering objectives, not the French Direct on Alpamayo.
:lol:

I'm thinking of, amongst other things, simulclimbing by placing a progress capture device at an anchor between the follower and the leader, so that if the follower falls he/she doesn't pull off the leader; judging when it's okay to simulclimb vs belay pitches; acceptable runout; escaping the belay; navigating and identifying avalanche terrain and understanding snowpack...

... these are all things encountered in Colorado. You can read about all of them, but to practice them safely takes a little nuance where "just figuring it out" can be dangerous. Many of us have been in situations where we don't plan to use the rope but terrain dictates it. Figuring that out on the fly can be lethal, as supported by an examination of "Accidents in North American Mountaineering".
Are these all topics/techniques you would suggest for someone starting out to tackle?

None of these are difficult, nor is it something a beginner would take on.

I truly think the best progression would be sport -> trad -> alpine -> mountaineering. The hill walking the 14ers requires then comes very naturally. Then you can rig a 3:1 or 5:1 haul pretty intuitively, place tiblocs on running belays etc.

Re: New to Mountaineering

Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:38 am
by SchralpTheGnar
When in doubt, run it out.

FWIW, I went the self taught route as well, though I did from time to time climb with some more experienced partners, I hit my ceiling at 5.7 alpine lead as a result over 10 years of actively pursuing the objective and I. Retrospect, I could have progressed more rapidly with better instruction.

Re: New to Mountaineering

Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:47 am
by Conor
I think that is the advantage of doing actual partner climbing. At some point, you'll find an actual mentor.

In other news, let's pull the 5th class peaks in Colorado >13k'...I count 7 that are ranked (some I would argue aren't really 5th class peaks like Whitney)....And not a lot of "classic" routes or even a lot of good climbing. The cool factor is pulling out the gear for the sake of pulling out the gear.
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Re: New to Mountaineering

Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:04 am
by Jorts
Conor wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:47 am
I think that is the advantage of doing actual partner climbing. At some point, you'll find an actual mentor.
Good point. A lot of those technical skills of consequence require a partner.

My original point without going into the minutiae of what requires or doesn't require instruction is just that most mistakes in the mountains will not kill you. You learn and fine tune your skill set with experience. As you become more experienced though, you're more likely to push the bounds and limits toward objectives with greater hazard and less room for error.

Knowing your limits and understanding the consequences of a mistake as one progresses to more challenging objectives is really important and lost on some who have not been burned by trivial mistakes of the past.

Re: New to Mountaineering

Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:45 pm
by greenonion
Jorts wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:04 am
Conor wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:47 am
I think that is the advantage of doing actual partner climbing. At some point, you'll find an actual mentor.
Good point. A lot of those technical skills of consequence require a partner.

My original point without going into the minutiae of what requires or doesn't require instruction is just that most mistakes in the mountains will not kill you. You learn and fine tune your skill set with experience. As you become more experienced though, you're more likely to push the bounds and limits toward objectives with greater hazard and less room for error.

Knowing your limits and understanding the consequences of a mistake as one progresses to more challenging objectives is really important and lost on some who have not been burned by trivial mistakes of the past.
+1

Re: New to Mountaineering

Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:46 pm
by DArcyS
Conor wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:47 am
And not a lot of "classic" routes or even a lot of good climbing.
Which makes me wonder about the worth of mountaineering to those who like to climb, and I don't mean hike, but climb on rocks. I've come to the point where I view exposure and class 4 climbing as a necessary evil to climb a peak. It's kind of a stupid risk where you can lose your life for something that's really quite meaningless. In terms of enjoying climbing, a day up Clear Canyon is far better and far safer.

Re: New to Mountaineering

Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:59 pm
by Jorts
DArcyS wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:46 pm
Conor wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:47 am
And not a lot of "classic" routes or even a lot of good climbing.
Which makes me wonder about the worth of mountaineering to those who like to climb, and I don't mean hike, but climb on rocks. I've come to the point where I view exposure and class 4 climbing as a necessary evil to climb a peak. It's kind of a stupid risk where you can lose your life for something that's really quite meaningless. In terms of enjoying climbing, a day up Clear Canyon is far better and far safer.
Guess it just depends what you’re looking for. Comparing a day amongst the hoards on some classic climbing routes to isolation on the side of a mountain that doesn’t see many visitors is apples and oranges.

I’ve been sport climbing since about 2000 but I enjoy an exposed position high on a ridge In pursuit of a remote summit so much more.

Re: New to Mountaineering

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:15 am
by DArcyS
Jorts wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:59 pm
I’ve been sport climbing since about 2000 but I enjoy an exposed position high on a ridge In pursuit of a remote summit so much more.
I have a vague recollection of seeing race times of yours. You're a well-rounded athlete/mountaineer/climber. :thumbup:

Re: New to Mountaineering

Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:57 am
by Jorts
DArcyS wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:15 am
I have a vague recollection of seeing race times of yours. You're a well-rounded athlete/mountaineer/climber. :thumbup:
Thanks!

Re: New to Mountaineering

Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:37 pm
by ltlFish99
Imho, anything and everything the Cmc offers is great. And whatever freedom of the hills cost, it is well spent.