3,000 foot rule question?

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Boggy B
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Re: 3,000 foot rule question?

Post by Boggy B » Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:32 pm

bergsteigen wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:54 am
Boggy B - remember that 11k, 8 peak day we did together separately? Well 11073/8 = 1,384’/peak. Do you want to do that loop 2 more times to be able to count each peak as getting 3k? Nope? Me neither.
Per the 3k ethic I've attempted to follow and which I've (perhaps mis)understood to be the standard, 3,000' or more shall have been gained on reaching a summit to count it. I didn't realize there were different rules for different elevation classes, though I can see why gaining 3k to summit a 6er is problematic. Looks like I missed it on 66 ranked peaks so I've got my work cut out for me.

Anyway, since we exceeded 3k to reach Electric, all peaks on that circuit counted.

Of course no one cares except you if you adhere to some minimum gain principle. Really 3k just seems like a good threshold for a cardio workout.
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Chicago Transplant
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Re: 3,000 foot rule question?

Post by Chicago Transplant » Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:08 pm

I always thought it was more cumulative than net? If you start from a higher trailhead, say 11,500. Drop to 11,200 to cross a creek and then climbed to 14,100 and back to the car, its 2900 net but 3200 cumulative, I think that would count.

I had a 9er in Eagle County that I climbed from an ~11,700' trailhead. This was due to private land below the mountain and a public road above it that eventually goes to a comm tower. I guess I have to count that one as negative 2000'. :lol:
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Boggy B
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Re: 3,000 foot rule question?

Post by Boggy B » Tue Oct 13, 2020 5:11 pm

Chicago Transplant wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:08 pm
I always thought it was more cumulative than net? If you start from a higher trailhead, say 11,500. Drop to 11,200 to cross a creek and then climbed to 14,100 and back to the car, its 2900 net but 3200 cumulative, I think that would count.

I had a 9er in Eagle County that I climbed from an ~11,700' trailhead. This was due to private land below the mountain and a public road above it that eventually goes to a comm tower. I guess I have to count that one as negative 2000'. :lol:
Hmm. Net gain to the summit in your example would be 2,600', cumulative 2,900', and total 3,200' for the day. Either way, for me it wouldn't count as a 3k summit since 3k was not gained prior to the summit.

Anyway, you've nicely illustrated how ridiculous it is to use net gain (as summit minus trailhead). Plenty of routes and trails involve non-trivial loss and regain that would count towards any logical representation of how much effort is required to complete them (and therefore count towards any application of minimum gain).
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Re: 3,000 foot rule question?

Post by John Prater » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:24 pm

bdloftin77 wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:27 pm
On listsofjohn, the site understandably lets you submit only unique peak ascents for each day - won't let you say you climbed Evans twice in a day for example. If I had done your route and recorded on listsofjohn, I would have submitted Evans (it records one ascent), and put in the comment that I ascended twice, and my route.
You can actually submit multiple ascents per day on LoJ. However, multiple ascents per day won't show up in the stats, lists, etc. I think the only way to see those multiple ascents is by downloading the list of peaks you've climbed.
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Re: 3,000 foot rule question?

Post by bdloftin77 » Wed Oct 14, 2020 6:53 am

John Prater wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:24 pm
bdloftin77 wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:27 pm
On listsofjohn, the site understandably lets you submit only unique peak ascents for each day - won't let you say you climbed Evans twice in a day for example. If I had done your route and recorded on listsofjohn, I would have submitted Evans (it records one ascent), and put in the comment that I ascended twice, and my route.
You can actually submit multiple ascents per day on LoJ. However, multiple ascents per day won't show up in the stats, lists, etc. I think the only way to see those multiple ascents is by downloading the list of peaks you've climbed.
Good to know! Thanks.
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Re: 3,000 foot rule question?

Post by nunns » Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:55 pm

Chicago Transplant wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:08 pm
I always thought it was more cumulative than net? If you start from a higher trailhead, say 11,500. Drop to 11,200 to cross a creek and then climbed to 14,100 and back to the car, its 2900 net but 3200 cumulative, I think that would count.

I had a 9er in Eagle County that I climbed from an ~11,700' trailhead. This was due to private land below the mountain and a public road above it that eventually goes to a comm tower. I guess I have to count that one as negative 2000'. :lol:
You probably have to count that against your lifetime elevation gain just like a running back does if he loses yards on a carry. :-D
Did you ever finish the 13ers? I remember you were very close.

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Re: 3,000 foot rule question?

Post by Jim Davies » Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:46 am

re: Multiple ascents in a day. Brandon Stapanowich once did four round-trips of Pikes Peak via Barr Trail in a weekend, including both the Ascent and Marathon races as the first and fourth trips. I think that counts as four climbs. :) https://www.podiumrunner.com/events/tra ... our-times/
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Re: 3,000 foot rule question?

Post by nunns » Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:50 am

Jim Davies wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:46 am
re: Multiple ascents in a day. Brandon Stapanowich once did four round-trips of Pikes Peak via Barr Trail in a weekend, including both the Ascent and Marathon races as the first and fourth trips. I think that counts as four climbs. :) https://www.podiumrunner.com/events/tra ... our-times/
Wow, once up the Barr trail was enough for me.
Then I took the train down. :)

Sean Nunn
"Thy righteousness is like the great mountains." --Psalms 36:6
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