Time for Hiking Licenses?

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derekesq
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Re: Time for Hiking Licenses?

Post by derekesq »

jmanner wrote:
painless4u2 wrote:Pure Deep State type thinking
:lol: You can't start a post with "Pure Deep State" and still expect rational people to take your next statement seriously.

+1 Ryan's posts are funny.

I don't think this is the proper way to control traffic and keep people safe. For my two cents, the "this is truly stupid" comments are little ridiculous.

Either way, we all need to come to terms that we don't live in the wild frontier of our forefathers. The idea of some 18th century Utopian wilderness, rugged self reliance is a fantasy that never existed and we shan't return to unless there some kind of cataclysm. It is amusing that the same people that don't want change are generally the ones against the return of wolves, grizzles and probably wouldn't be happy if the prior owners of the land came back looking for ownership.
As to "rugged self reliance is a fantasy that never existed" tell that to the Donner party. :wink:
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LURE
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Re: Time for Hiking Licenses?

Post by LURE »

hessma wrote:
EZsummits wrote:Permits are coming whether we like it or not. However, that only helps with moderating traffic and it will disperse people to other locations that aren't permitted. The issue remains that we need a viable long-term solution to proactively educate people before they go into the Forest and Wilderness. We have tried passive education and the "no one can tell me what I can & can't do strategy" for a long time - IT IS FAILING. You can either be part of the solution or wait for a dumbass politician to force a terrible solution on us. Just because you can still find solitude doesn't change the fact that there is a major problem. With another 700k to 1 million people moving to Colorado in the next 10 years we need to start making changes now. ](*,)
Agreed...I'm pretty sure hikers do a significant amount of policing out on the trail and especially on the internet when it comes to the do's and dont's of the wilderness.

Problem is, hikers aren't the only people in the woods.

Fire bans are ignored on a grand scale. It won't be long before a fire ban means a camping ban, or even a "closed" sign on your favorite trail.
And why are temporary bans often a thing? Why do trails close? Because agencies run out the resources to maintain them. You're favorite forest service road that got a gate put across it happened because the forest service lacked the money to keep it safe. I'll say it again, funding is the issue, along with impact from volume but funding is a big thing. Things worth having aren't free. Just cause they're public lands doesn't make them free.

I'm probably an anti-tax guy and a small government guy more than most people on this site, but people gotta realize that our public lands cost money. And there's a disproportionate amount of use for the money in a lot of places. I think permits will help this in some areas. More money will greatly help in a lot of places.

Edit: I should clarify that I'm purposefully ignoring the safety thing in the wilderness, people are gonna die and get hurt regardless. I'm more focused, for example, on how do we help our SAR continue to keep up with this so they don't have to look at bans and permits cause they can't afford or have enough availability to rescue people, and other funding issues. SAR, while free, is also not free. And where does a lot of SAR funding come from? Oh, the hunting community :-k
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DArcyS
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Re: Time for Hiking Licenses?

Post by DArcyS »

12ersRule wrote:What would one of those tests look like?
Simple. I would have people retype answers (or statements) already shown to them on the screen. Examples:

"Do not force your route. It is safer to backtrack and find another route."

"Sometimes it is safer and more time efficient to drop elevation than to force a route."

"Do not leave graffiti on the rocks of summits."

"Bury your own waste and carry out your TP."

"Be cautious of summit fever."

"Be cautious of placing all of your weight on large boulders while climbing Capitol and Snowmass."

And so forth. The idea is to educate efficiently.

People spend idle hours driving to trailheads, but to spend a fraction of that time learning a little information that could save a life and protect the environment -- HORRORS!

As for efficiency, it's a cost/benefit analysis. Some, but not all, would benefit. But nothing is for free.
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LURE
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Re: Time for Hiking Licenses?

Post by LURE »

What about a concept like this: don't make something like a corsar card madnatory, but figure a new price for one and create an incentive for them. For example, buy a Corsar Card for 10 bucks, if you don't, and SAR has to rescue you, you will be charged some percentage of the rescue fee's, or you'll have to use your insurance co-pay for services or something. I dunno. But buying one continue to keep SAR free for the user. You can't legally hunt an animal in the state of colorado without also paying a surcharge to SAR.
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Re: Time for Hiking Licenses?

Post by Blamo »

What if, rather than licensing, there was some sort of certification system?

For example, you climb peak A, B, C, & D to attain Level 1 certification, then, once accomplished climb peak X, Y and Z to get Level 2, and so on to however many levels are determined to be necessary. Then, you assign a difficulty level to each peak/hike/route and use those designations as a recommendation (not requirement) as to what certification level you should have achieved before attempting them. The easiest hikes would be Level Zero, meaning suitable for anyone to try, and go up from there.

You could charge a fee for the certificate and use the proceeds for trail maintenance. The certification levels could be a fun goal to work towards, and having an official rating system would help people in determining what is appropriate for them to climb/hike. As the certification levels would be recommended and not required, people would still have the freedom to do as they please.

Just a thought.
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Re: Time for Hiking Licenses?

Post by highpilgrim »

EZsummits wrote:The issue remains that we need a viable long-term solution to proactively educate people before they go into the Forest and Wilderness.
You can't force people to have curiosity and a willingness to learn, even when their well-being is dependent on it. And all the social media makes a backcountry adventure look so very accessible and without much difficulty or challenge.

The root cause of the many incidents we have is that many lack respect and caution, and the way you gain those is through experience and by responding to the mishaps that occur along your journey.

The burned hand teaches best. Unfortunately, Darwinism sometimes applies.
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claytid
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Re: Time for Hiking Licenses?

Post by claytid »

Blamo wrote:What if, rather than licensing, there was some sort of certification system?

For example, you climb peak A, B, C, & D to attain Level 1 certification, then, once accomplished climb peak X, Y and Z to get Level 2, and so on to however many levels are determined to be necessary. Then, you assign a difficulty level to each peak/hike/route and use those designations as a recommendation (not requirement) as to what certification level you should have achieved before attempting them. The easiest hikes would be Level Zero, meaning suitable for anyone to try, and go up from there.
I dunno...seems like a management nightmare. Mountains are inherently dangerous and people are going to get into trouble, no matter. I'm not opposed to permitting but I like it as a means of funding SAR, trail mgmt, etc.
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Re: Time for Hiking Licenses?

Post by XterraRob »

Blamo wrote:What if, rather than licensing, there was some sort of certification system?

For example, you climb peak A, B, C, & D to attain Level 1 certification, then, once accomplished climb peak X, Y and Z to get Level 2, and so on to however many levels are determined to be necessary. Then, you assign a difficulty level to each peak/hike/route and use those designations as a recommendation (not requirement) as to what certification level you should have achieved before attempting them. The easiest hikes would be Level Zero, meaning suitable for anyone to try, and go up from there.

You could charge a fee for the certificate and use the proceeds for trail maintenance. The certification levels could be a fun goal to work towards, and having an official rating system would help people in determining what is appropriate for them to climb/hike. As the certification levels would be recommended and not required, people would still have the freedom to do as they please.

Just a thought.
What is this AMGA certification or leisure recreation? Jesus lol.
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Prairie Dog
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Re: Time for Hiking Licenses?

Post by Prairie Dog »

I am 100% in favor of this license idea - but only to hike above 14,000 ft. Because nothing bad ever happens below 14k - 13,980: totally safe - above 14,000: you're entering the death zone!

But seriously, given the popularity of the 14ers, that may not be too far off base. It may however have the unintended consequence of pushing more inexperienced people to the 13ers - which could be a real bad situation on many levels...
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Re: Time for Hiking Licenses?

Post by EZsummits »

highpilgrim wrote: The burned hand teaches best. Unfortunately, Darwinism sometimes applies.
What about the people that the burned hand doesn't teach? That is where a large part of the problem lies. If we don't have a system to limit their access and ultimately push them out the "douchebag" lifestyle will only expand as more and more people move here. :-k

None of us are perfect and most of us have made mistakes in the wild. I have no problem with people that make mistakes or don't know better, if they are willing to learn as they go. If they aren't - we can help expedite their exit from these special places. [-X
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Re: Time for Hiking Licenses?

Post by painless4u2 »

Big Brother.jpg
Big Brother.jpg (8.33 KiB) Viewed 2422 times
I will dictate who will be allowed to hike our mountains. Only if I find you worthy (or if you are friends of Al Gore) will you be allowed to proceed.

Yeah, have fun with that, pilgrim!
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Tejonmax
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Re: Time for Hiking Licenses?

Post by Tejonmax »

Build a wall around Colorado to keep the "illegals" from other states out and things will be much better. You will have a smaller amount of people to regulate. We can start with Texas. "sarc"
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