6 Most Dangerous Colorado Mountains
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Re: 6 Most Dangerous Colorado Mountains
I didn't realize the approaches to Peak 15 (and Pigeon/Turret) and Jagged were so long and dangerous.
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Re: 6 Most Dangerous Colorado Mountains
I agree completely and I actually study falling rocks for a living. It's very interesting, particularly since nobody likes the cost implications of our recommendations and thus ignores most of those that don't involve "annual monitoring."DArcyS wrote:My vote gets that granite/granodiorite of Capitol and Snowmass. Yes, there's more brittle and rotten rock out there, but what makes it dangerous is that you have large blocks that can do serious harm if you're caught in the wrong position when one comes loose.
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Re: 6 Most Dangerous Colorado Mountains
Huh, I guess my stab in the dark for geology was better than my one for astronomy (and the shadow with the eclipse). Well, I suppose I wasn't completely guessing.Monster5 wrote:I agree completely and I actually study falling rocks for a living. It's very interesting, particularly since nobody likes the cost implications of our recommendations and thus ignores most of those that don't involve "annual monitoring."DArcyS wrote:My vote gets that granite/granodiorite of Capitol and Snowmass. Yes, there's more brittle and rotten rock out there, but what makes it dangerous is that you have large blocks that can do serious harm if you're caught in the wrong position when one comes loose.
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Re: 6 Most Dangerous Colorado Mountains
I was sort of expecting to see Turret Ridge and Chimney Rock in the list
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Re: 6 Most Dangerous Colorado Mountains
Since it sounds like this is an educated discussion...Monster5 wrote:I agree completely and I actually study falling rocks for a living. It's very interesting, particularly since nobody likes the cost implications of our recommendations and thus ignores most of those that don't involve "annual monitoring."DArcyS wrote:My vote gets that granite/granodiorite of Capitol and Snowmass. Yes, there's more brittle and rotten rock out there, but what makes it dangerous is that you have large blocks that can do serious harm if you're caught in the wrong position when one comes loose.
I would love to hear additional details about the type of rock in various ranges/mountains. I hear things like how solid the rock is on Crestones, and how loose/rotten it is in the Elks, but my curiosity (and eventual safety knowledge) is piqued to know a little more of the nitty gritty...
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Re: 6 Most Dangerous Colorado Mountains
jchapell,
When it comes to granite, a big issue is the cooling of the rock as it forms. Fast-cooled granite is known for its density and general smoothness.The light colored, perfect granite of Yosemite is an example. I suspect the same is true for Capitol Peak, it looks a lot like Yosemite granite, but as mentioned lots of loose blocks there.
Slow-cooled granite, however, allows the minerals in the rock to crystalize along liner planes, leading to a much coarser rock, more prone to shattering. Examples of that are "cheese grater" granite, "San Juan kitty litter," (including parts of Peak 15 ), etc. It can be rock solid (pun intended), but at the margins crumbly and not nearly as solid.
And then you have sandstone! LOTS of types, with names! Dakota, Kayenta, Entrada, etc. etc. The best for climbing is probably Wingate, very dense for the most part.
-Tom
When it comes to granite, a big issue is the cooling of the rock as it forms. Fast-cooled granite is known for its density and general smoothness.The light colored, perfect granite of Yosemite is an example. I suspect the same is true for Capitol Peak, it looks a lot like Yosemite granite, but as mentioned lots of loose blocks there.
Slow-cooled granite, however, allows the minerals in the rock to crystalize along liner planes, leading to a much coarser rock, more prone to shattering. Examples of that are "cheese grater" granite, "San Juan kitty litter," (including parts of Peak 15 ), etc. It can be rock solid (pun intended), but at the margins crumbly and not nearly as solid.
And then you have sandstone! LOTS of types, with names! Dakota, Kayenta, Entrada, etc. etc. The best for climbing is probably Wingate, very dense for the most part.
-Tom
Re: 6 Most Dangerous Colorado Mountains
Oi. Trying to drop the jargon, rockfall susceptibility of a particular rock type kind of has to do with two major factors.
1) When the rock formed, were there major planes of weakness or other inherent properties which lead to lack of strength or resistance to erosion? The age, composition, and environment in which the rock formed are factors here.
2) Was the rock exposed to major events AFTER formation which created planes of weakness? I.e. Glaciers carved out areas and created steep walls. The steep walls tend to rebound and crack with predictable patterns. Or uplift of the mountain range, likewise creating "cracks" in the rock. Freeze-thaw enters the discussion here. Water enters a crack, freezes over night (expands roughly 9% by volume) and wedges the crack out a bit, then the ice thaws once the sun hits, releasing the rock.
The Bells are slightly metamorphosed sedimentary rock with a distinct plane of weakness (bedding plane). The rock is fairly weak, but the bedding plane is fairly shallow. So the rock tends to be highly fractured and fails in smaller blocks which rest on ledges. While this area was subject to glaciation, the fracture pattern of the rock and natural ledges prevented steep and truly vertical faces with large blocks from forming.
The Capitol/Snowmass area is mostly granodiorite. An igneous rock that tends to be very similar with no bedding planes. However, this area was subject to immense glaciation as well as uplift. Glaciers carved paths through the area and left behind steep ridgelines. When the glaciers went away, that external force pressing against the ridges disappeared, which caused the rock to deform and crack. Imagine two people leaning on each other and one steps away, causing the other to fall. Similar here, except the rock fails in a brittle manner. The cracks formed by rebound intersect with the cracks formed during mountain uplift. Thus, we get irregularly-sized fractured blocks that, upon failure, are spectacularly more destructive. Yosemite is an example of a granitic rock subject to glaciation but relatively not as much uplift and other periods of deformation. Thus, the cracks are mostly continuous and regular. Relatively more solid, but failures are even more impressive.
The Sangres have a couple primary rock types, but most are familiar with the conglomerate of the Crestones area. Rounded river cobble, sand, and silt that have been plastered and compressed together to form a fairly stable rock with a strong bonding material. This stuff is pretty old too, meaning the sediments were buried for a long time and compressed prior to being exposed by mountain uplift, erosion, and mass wasting. While these areas also have bedding planes, they are far less distinct than the Elks area, mostly because the energy required to move those cobbles into place was far more destructive than the energy required to move the siltier and smaller stuff of the Elks into place.
The San Juans are actually a mixed bag. Granite (Grenadiers), quartzite, sedimentary rocks, volcanic rocks, and rocks that formed from falling hot volcanic ash or flowing ash/water/lava mixtures. All the volcanic activity AND glaciation lends to pretty jumbled fractures and cracks. The volcanic-derived material is the nastiest and is mostly concentrated along the northern SJs where one can see interesting choss spires and hoodoos that look similar to conglomeratic rock but have weaker clayey bonds - Cimarrons, West Elks, Wheeler Geologic Area, etc. This stuff is relatively young too, so the material hasn't really been compressed and solidified like the Sangres conglomerate.
Now most of these things have to do with rockfall causes. Triggers - such as rain, humans, freeze-thaw, etc are another matter. As is risk, which factors in a peak's popularity.
1) When the rock formed, were there major planes of weakness or other inherent properties which lead to lack of strength or resistance to erosion? The age, composition, and environment in which the rock formed are factors here.
2) Was the rock exposed to major events AFTER formation which created planes of weakness? I.e. Glaciers carved out areas and created steep walls. The steep walls tend to rebound and crack with predictable patterns. Or uplift of the mountain range, likewise creating "cracks" in the rock. Freeze-thaw enters the discussion here. Water enters a crack, freezes over night (expands roughly 9% by volume) and wedges the crack out a bit, then the ice thaws once the sun hits, releasing the rock.
The Bells are slightly metamorphosed sedimentary rock with a distinct plane of weakness (bedding plane). The rock is fairly weak, but the bedding plane is fairly shallow. So the rock tends to be highly fractured and fails in smaller blocks which rest on ledges. While this area was subject to glaciation, the fracture pattern of the rock and natural ledges prevented steep and truly vertical faces with large blocks from forming.
The Capitol/Snowmass area is mostly granodiorite. An igneous rock that tends to be very similar with no bedding planes. However, this area was subject to immense glaciation as well as uplift. Glaciers carved paths through the area and left behind steep ridgelines. When the glaciers went away, that external force pressing against the ridges disappeared, which caused the rock to deform and crack. Imagine two people leaning on each other and one steps away, causing the other to fall. Similar here, except the rock fails in a brittle manner. The cracks formed by rebound intersect with the cracks formed during mountain uplift. Thus, we get irregularly-sized fractured blocks that, upon failure, are spectacularly more destructive. Yosemite is an example of a granitic rock subject to glaciation but relatively not as much uplift and other periods of deformation. Thus, the cracks are mostly continuous and regular. Relatively more solid, but failures are even more impressive.
The Sangres have a couple primary rock types, but most are familiar with the conglomerate of the Crestones area. Rounded river cobble, sand, and silt that have been plastered and compressed together to form a fairly stable rock with a strong bonding material. This stuff is pretty old too, meaning the sediments were buried for a long time and compressed prior to being exposed by mountain uplift, erosion, and mass wasting. While these areas also have bedding planes, they are far less distinct than the Elks area, mostly because the energy required to move those cobbles into place was far more destructive than the energy required to move the siltier and smaller stuff of the Elks into place.
The San Juans are actually a mixed bag. Granite (Grenadiers), quartzite, sedimentary rocks, volcanic rocks, and rocks that formed from falling hot volcanic ash or flowing ash/water/lava mixtures. All the volcanic activity AND glaciation lends to pretty jumbled fractures and cracks. The volcanic-derived material is the nastiest and is mostly concentrated along the northern SJs where one can see interesting choss spires and hoodoos that look similar to conglomeratic rock but have weaker clayey bonds - Cimarrons, West Elks, Wheeler Geologic Area, etc. This stuff is relatively young too, so the material hasn't really been compressed and solidified like the Sangres conglomerate.
Now most of these things have to do with rockfall causes. Triggers - such as rain, humans, freeze-thaw, etc are another matter. As is risk, which factors in a peak's popularity.
Last edited by Monster5 on Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 6 Most Dangerous Colorado Mountains
Lots of finer grained, interlayed sedimnetary rocks in the elks - capitol being an obvious exception among others - and minerals that weather more easily and more layering results in less resistant properties and higher erosive rates.jchapell wrote:Since it sounds like this is an educated discussion...Monster5 wrote:I agree completely and I actually study falling rocks for a living. It's very interesting, particularly since nobody likes the cost implications of our recommendations and thus ignores most of those that don't involve "annual monitoring."DArcyS wrote:My vote gets that granite/granodiorite of Capitol and Snowmass. Yes, there's more brittle and rotten rock out there, but what makes it dangerous is that you have large blocks that can do serious harm if you're caught in the wrong position when one comes loose.
I would love to hear additional details about the type of rock in various ranges/mountains. I hear things like how solid the rock is on Crestones, and how loose/rotten it is in the Elks, but my curiosity (and eventual safety knowledge) is piqued to know a little more of the nitty gritty...
I actually have never looked into the crestones, when I see pictures it always looks like conglomerate, is a metaconglomerate? Any geo nerds out there? Conglomerates can be real solid depending on the cement. Ever been on the Flatirons? That's a hard silica cement conglomerate, real solid.
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Re: 6 Most Dangerous Colorado Mountains
^^^^ Nicely done, Monster5. I liked the explanation for the creation of the large blocks in the Snowmass/Capitol area.
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Re: 6 Most Dangerous Colorado Mountains
If there is a "like" button on 14ers, I just pressed it! This is the stuff I expected from Monster5.Monster5 wrote:Oi. Trying to drop the jargon, rockfall susceptibility of a particular rock type kind of has to do with two major factors.
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Re: 6 Most Dangerous Colorado Mountains
Why???? This...Rich H wrote:I was sort of expecting to see Turret Ridge and Chimney Rock in the list
...is clearly more dangerous than this...
Seriously though. No doubt riding a bear is more dangerous than riding a horse, but accident statists would show the exact opposite. Nobody does the more dangerous peaks so they fly under the radar on anything like this.
PS - You guys are nerds.
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Re: 6 Most Dangerous Colorado Mountains
Can any of you geologists on this thread identify the type of rock on North Eolus. It is noticably different from Eolus and it felt to me like I suddenly had gecko hands and feet. To my untrained eye, it appeared to be some form of sandstone. I would love to figure out what kind and why it feels and looks so completely different from another connected mountain that's only a few hundred feet away.
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