Adventure and Perspective

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Eli Boardman
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Re: Adventure and Perspective

Post by Eli Boardman »

Bombay2Boulder wrote:
In an interview with the New York Times, Jorgeson said he hopes their remarkable achievement, a feat that was once seen as impossible, "inspires people to find their own Dawn Wall, if you will." Everyone, he said, "has their own secret Dawn Wall to complete one day, and maybe they can put this project in their own context."
Yes, and I believe an older version of this sentiment was expressed by the aforementioned Maurice Herzog, "There are other Annapurnas in the lives of men." Not sure that either of these quotes makes any individual undertaking more or less of an adventure.
TallGrass wrote:Type 3 Fun: It wasn't fun for you then, nor now, but your "friends" sure seem to enjoy reminding you of it.
Maybe I'm confused, but I always thought type 3 fun was "It's fun to talk about how bad it was." Probably there are different definitions. Yours makes sense too, it's just not the one I've heard before.
Scott P wrote:Soling Ariana on the Diamond in winter in an hour would probably be in the league of what Buhl did on Nanga Parbat.
Indeed, I believe I was employing the rhetorical device of hyperbole in this case. :)
Scott P wrote:This is probably true on the 14ers and in the densely populated areas, but there are still several un-climbed peaks in Colorado and plenty of un-climbed routes as well. "Almost certainly" is not accurate in many regions. You just need to get out more.
The only place I can think of that supposedly has a lot of FAs left is the area west of Grand Junction, supposedly lots of difficult and ranked low-elevation buttes and such. Still, for any given sample of someone doing something outside in Colorado, I believe my statement is true. I think it would take a lot of obscure butte baggers to add up to a tiny fraction of the people doing the already-done things, hence, if you're a random sample person doing something outside in Colorado, it has almost certainly been done before/etc., because by statistics, you're almost certainly doing something relatively popular. Not sure if that makes sense, but I think it does?
Scott P wrote:There are plenty of us who have climbed plenty of foreign mountains without a guide.
I don't think we disagree on this point, in fact I said in the OP that there are people on this board who certainly qualify as "adventurers" by the most stringent criteria. I'm not one, possibly never will be. Only you can judge whether you are. I do not know of any published statistics (probably some exist somewhere), but I would hazard a guess that a significant majority of people in the world who attempt "big mountains" (define that how you will) use a guide.
____________

I hope everyone realizes that the OP was 50% boredom, 30% exaggeration, and 20% serious.
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planet54
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Re: Adventure and Perspective

Post by planet54 »

Scott P wrote:You do make a good point about Colorado mountains as being more mundane than in many other parts of the world. I took this photo a few days ago of a spectacular peak that is definitely more of a mountain than any Colorado 14er (name the mountain for extra forum points):
I was where you were 11 years ago. Nice place eh
High Route Above Carhuacocha.jpg
High Route Above Carhuacocha.jpg (371.89 KiB) Viewed 2600 times
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Scott P
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Re: Adventure and Perspective

Post by Scott P »

Messner was truly lucky to live through the 8000m quest and lost his brother in the process.
He also lost several climbing partners, including one that died while looking for Messner.
The only place I can think of that supposedly has a lot of FAs left is the area west of Grand Junction, supposedly lots of difficult and ranked low-elevation buttes and such.
Dinosaur National Monument has several as well.

7071 was finally climbed in 2010:

http://www.summitpost.org/peak-7071-my- ... ado/236059

The most difficult remaining peak I can think of on the Colorado side is 6799. Of course I haven't climbed it, but it would be difficult for sure.

Almost no one climbs anything technical out here, even though there are hundreds or thousands of potential routes.
because by statistics, you're almost certainly doing something relatively popular.
Not so. In this part of Colorado, anything that sees one climb a year would be popular. Most of the registers on the peaks go years or decades between ascents. Here are just a few random summit logs of what would be a comparatively popular mountains in this part of the state:

Image

Image

I didn't take a picture of it, but the register for "Forgotten Point" still had a perfectly sharpened pencil with no other signatures since Mike Garret placed the register years before our ascent.

The register on Sugar Loaf had five signatures in 30 years, indicating a somewhat popular mountain.

Some summit logs I have found in the area go 30 years between ascents.

Many of the rest of the peaks around here show no signs at all that anyone has been there (although people probably have). The peaks are still interesting in their own way:

Image

In Utah, I have found a summit logs that hadn't been signed in 80+ years.

Of course, not everyone signs summit logs, especially on popular peaks (I usually don't bother on the really popular peaks), but peaks with summit logs that go decades between ascents still indicate a little visited peak.
I was where you were 11 years ago. Nice place eh
Yes, very nice! We actually had the good fortune to climb 7 of the "smaller" peaks in the area, including the possible second ascent of Pucaccacca (first climbed in 2013). That one was certainly an adventure, at least to me! Of course, it is nothing when compared to the big ones in the area.
I'm old, slow and fat. Unfortunately, those are my good qualities.
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Brian C
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Re: Adventure and Perspective

Post by Brian C »

I thought I was with you, but after reading this again I'm not quite sure I understand your point. I get that you think that Colorado stuff can't be classified as an "adventure", but I'm not sure I get what you consider to be a modern-day adventure. Are you thinking just high-altitude technical FAs? Do you personally care about experiencing a true mountain adventure, and if you do what would an example of that be?
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Scott P
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Re: Adventure and Perspective

Post by Scott P »

Brian C wrote:I thought I was with you, but after reading this again I'm not quite sure I understand your point. I get that you think that Colorado stuff can't be classified as an "adventure", but I'm not sure I get what you consider to be a modern-day adventure. Are you thinking just high-altitude technical FAs? Do you personally care about experiencing a true mountain adventure, and if you do what would an example of that be?
Undeniable fact:

Climbing with Brian C is always an adventure, even in Colorado!
I'm old, slow and fat. Unfortunately, those are my good qualities.
cschmidt1023
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Re: Adventure and Perspective

Post by cschmidt1023 »

You summarize exactly how I feel so much more eloquently and tactfully haha! I'm fairly surprised you haven't sparked more flames - though it is still a young thread. To me it comes off as rhetoric - but to some them could be fightin words!

I do have to say that some of the people that come off as Instagram warriors actually can come up with some pretty good rhetoric as well. I have come to realize as I grow older it is impossible to accurately determine what people's motivations are, but it doesn't really matter at the end of the day. As long as they aren't scum that leave trash and carve their names in Aspens everybody has an equal right to having their own adventures in the mountains.
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TallGrass
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Re: Adventure and Perspective

Post by TallGrass »

FireOnTheMountain wrote:
oldasthmatic wrote:For you to belittle them for using that term is somewhat arrogant, especially at your age.
Its not belittling to preach humility.
Then why are humility and humiliation so closely related?

Judeo-Christian: Humility is a virtue. Pride is the one of the worst sins.
Ancient Greeks: Humility is a vice. Pride is a virtue second only to wisdom.*
:wft: you say?

J-C values tend to be dualities, good v. bad, right v. wrong, but that can lead to extremes. If right is good, righter is gooder, and the rightest is really very much more gooder. Whereas Grecian values tended to be Goldilocks trinities valuing moderation amid extremes, the fight to maintain the ridgeline and not tumble into the drainage of either side.

* To the Greeks, humility claims less than merited; pride the appropriate, equitable amount; and hubris or arrogance too much. Think swimmer Phelps winning a race but only accepting a silver (Humility), or coming in second but demanding a gold because "I'm Michael F***ing Phelps" (Hubris, Arrogance), compared to reaping the due attention and accolades for his years of effort for (one or more) gold for placing first or even silver for second (Pride).

Can you brag about being humble? Is pride in your humility, or humility about your pride self-defeating? Does what one has to be "proud about" vary in quality and quantity? And if pride is sinful, why does Matt' 5:16 advise "let your light shine before men; that they may see your good works"? How about the observation, "It's a sad dog that won't wag it's own tail."?

It's old philosophical cud, as you can see...
Humility: Vice or Virtue
Ancient Pride, Christian Humility
Virtue and hubris in Ancient Greece
The Power of Pride: Vice or Virtue?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris#An ... eek_origin

Edit: This one touches on comparisons to your "betters"...
"Eventually, this idea became an ingrained part of Western culture in general and was transferred ... to the class systems that developed, such as nobles and commoners, or the rich and the poor. Then it was hubris to think yourself the equal to or better than your 'betters,' meaning anyone perceived by your society as having a higher social or financial standing than you."
Last edited by TallGrass on Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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shredthegnar10
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Re: Adventure and Perspective

Post by shredthegnar10 »

I'm not sure what your point is. What makes you so supremely qualified to define what's an adventure and what isn't?

So, according to you, if someone doesn't live and breathe climbing and mountaineering 24/7, and isn't FAing new routes on 8000m peaks in winter with no O2 and only wearing vintage gear, they're not worthy of talking about their accomplishments or sharing pictures/trip reports?

Adventure is about pushing your own limits -- physically and mentally. For some people that's Everest, for some that's Denali, and for some that's Mt. Yale. I don't think it's a stretch to say that someone who moved to Colorado from Iowa and had never seen mountains before in their life feels the same sense of wonder climbing up Elbert that I did climbing Denali after growing up in CO and having seven years of mountaineering experience.

The fact that Rainier's DC route is a boring training hike for me doesn't make it less of an adventure for the majority of the people who climb it.
Most things worth doing are difficult, dangerous, expensive, or all three.
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Re: Adventure and Perspective

Post by dubv1 »

R/gatekeeping
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oldschoolczar
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Re: Adventure and Perspective

Post by oldschoolczar »

Did you ever consider that "adventure" is a subjective experience?

Get some life experiences.. then maybe your posts will be worth reading.
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Re: Adventure and Perspective

Post by beburke30 »

Trying to find my way home last weekend after about seven too many at the Kentucky Inn was an adventure.
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Re: Adventure and Perspective

Post by ClimbandMine »

Eli Boardman wrote:I said in the OP that there are people on this board who certainly qualify as "adventurers" by the most stringent criteria. I'm not one, possibly never will be.
Then why post such a rant?

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