Adventure and Perspective

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Eli Boardman
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Adventure and Perspective

Post by Eli Boardman »

"I went on a big adventure and climbed a Colorado 14er."

Really? I would beg to differ.

Rheinhold Messner said, “Adventure is impossible without the possibility of death.” Rheinhold Messner went on adventures. He climbed all 14 of the 8,000 meter peaks. That’s really, really hard to do, and if you tried it, you’d die for sure. Instead, you drove a car halfway up some 4,000 meter peaks, hiked a couple hours on a trail, texted your friends, drove down for dinner, and claimed it was an adventure.

“But I could have died, so it must be an adventure, right?”

Wrong. These days, more often than not, SAR will come and get you in a helicopter and whisk your sorry butt down to a hospital before you have a chance to die. Yes, there are exceptions, and people do die, which is tragic. But it’s not at all common, and a slim chance of bad luck doesn’t make it an adventure. Climbing a serac with no communication or evacuation ability on the first ascent of Annapurna is an adventure. Do you think Maurice Herzog had the option of bailing out in a helicopter?

Oh yeah, about that Maurice Herzog guy. He was pretty cool. Went and did the first ascent of Annapurna, which was the first ascent of an 8,000 meter peak, and he hardly had a rough map of the area going in. And you think you’re so cool because you’re “old school” and use 7.5-minute topo maps and a compass to navigate.

“I see your point for the average Colorado 14er climber. But I’m different. I climb difficult routes in adverse conditions, I’ve survived an avalanche, I’ve soloed Ariana on the Diamond in winter in 1 hour, and I’ve skied the Capitol-Snowmass traverse solo in winter.”

Good for you. All that winter-climbing, solo-climbing, rock-climbing, mixed-climbing, ski-climbing, other-cool-sounding-adjective-climbing stuff puts you a level up from the tourist crowd, for sure. But Hermann Buhl made the first ascent of Nanga Parbat, 8,126 meters, solo, without oxygen. That’s an adventure, what you’ve done almost certainly can’t be compared.

“So this is just about bashing Colorado’s mountains.”

No, while it’s true I like Wyoming better, Colorado’s mountains are pretty nice. And climbing all the 14ers could be an adventure--if it was 1923 and you were Carl Blaurock or Bill Ervin.
Adventure in Colorado’s mountains is pretty much dead. You can do all the difficult, dangerous stuff imaginable in the worst possible conditions, and chances are, if you’re in Colorado, someone else has almost certainly done it before you, and faster and in better style to boot.

“I climbed [insert big foreign mountain], therefore I am an adventurer.”

Possibly. But you probably used a guide, had the most modern and reliable equipment, and took a very well established route. I’m not saying it wasn’t hard, and I probably couldn’t have done it. But that doesn’t mean you’re the next Edmund Hillary.

“So you’re saying adventure is only possible on first ascents.”

No. You could climb Masherbrum. That would be an adventure, even though it’s been done before.

“But Pakistan is dangerous and airplane tickets are expensive.”

So take some boats and buses there. Or would that be too adventurous for you?

"So you're saying it's all about altitude and adventures can only be in the Himalaya?"


Nope. You could also go climb Monte Fitz Roy. That would probably be a real 11er adventure.

“This rant is stupid. All the comparisons are either hypothetical or references to pros, who are usually paid/sponsored/etc.”

Yes. Being a pro doesn’t mean you don’t count anymore. You and I are not adventurous enough to risk dedicating our career paths to mountaineering. That’s our fault, not Jimmy Chin’s fault.

Are you offended? That’s not the point of this, rather, it’s about perspective. Getting up and hiking a 14er is laudable exercise for the average person and a great way to get pretty pictures and good memories. But it’s not adventurous. Also, there are people on this board who do go on adventures. There are not many, but there are some. And they generally brag a lot less than the rest of us.

The point is, 99% of what we do in the mountains in Colorado isn’t half as cool or adventurous as what the real mountaineers do. A real, adventurous, mountaineer will be heading out on some poorly-described, difficult, run-out pitch at 20,000 feet on Nameless Tower when you're heading out on the on-ramp for I-70. Now don’t get me wrong. I’m not exempt from this. I love the U.S. mountains, from Wyoming to Colorado to everywhere else, and I sometimes brag about my “adventures” in these mountains.

But at least I realize I’m not Rheinhold Messner when I climb a 14er.

Cue flame war...
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Re: Adventure and Perspective

Post by Bombay2Boulder »

In an interview with the New York Times, Jorgeson said he hopes their remarkable achievement, a feat that was once seen as impossible, "inspires people to find their own Dawn Wall, if you will." Everyone, he said, "has their own secret Dawn Wall to complete one day, and maybe they can put this project in their own context."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/on- ... fbb39a06ce
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Re: Adventure and Perspective

Post by TallGrass »

Eli Boardman wrote:"I went on a big adventure and climbed a Colorado 14er." Really? I would beg to differ. Rheinhold Messner said, “Adventure is impossible without the possibility of death.”
And yet some have died on 14ers, and I wouldn't call that "adventure."

I think each person's continuum of <--boredom--interest--adventure--overwhelmed--> varies so that what overwhelms one person bores another. Few, for example, get excited about walking down the street, unless they've been on crutches for weeks or months.
To compare your dose to others makes as much sense as prescribing meds based off the junky with the highest tolerance.

Rather than measure myself by others limits, I prefer to find my own and stretch them. This is also the problem with folks asking if they're biting off too much because nearly all responses are based on assumptions and guesses about population averages versus objectively assessing the OP's skills, traits, and accomplishments (often left out in their post). That's what makes getting fitting advice as challenging as a fitting partner. One person's warmup 5k time is another's PR.

Many also associate "adventure" with the fun of novel stimuli, new experiences, not death. Who goes out to have fun, versus who goes out to try and get nearly killed? If the latter, "adventure" is no farther away than hiking into the cold with only shorts, shoes, and a tanktop (i.e. d' from exposure).

Type 1 Fun: It's fun while you're doing it.
Type 2 Fun: It's fun to reflecting back on, but not in the moment you're doing it.
Type 3 Fun: It wasn't fun for you then, nor now, but your "friends" sure seem to enjoy reminding you of it.
Type 4: No one wants to go there.
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Re: Adventure and Perspective

Post by FireOnTheMountain »

And I thought I was a crusty 30year old 60 year old but you makin me look a little tame here. I dig your style man. Lot of wisdom here for a youngin. I'm reminded of one of the greatest rants of all time I've read.... "You are not Steve F***king House."

Keep the ball rollin, stay safe, know your limits but push them a little. I'll be followin whatever you willing to share!
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Re: Adventure and Perspective

Post by Eli Boardman »

FireOnTheMountain wrote:I'm reminded of one of the greatest rants of all time I've read.... "You are not Steve F***king House."
Hah, in fact this was inspired by that. For those who want to read some classic internet literature: http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/for ... st=1881604
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Re: Adventure and Perspective

Post by oldasthmatic »

Adventure: noun: an unusual and exciting, typically hazardous, experience or activity.

To the speaker, it was an adventure for them. For you to belittle them for using that term is somewhat arrogant, especially at your age.

For anyone to do a 14er when they haven't before, it is an adventure! That person should get positive strokes, not a lecture.
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FireOnTheMountain
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Re: Adventure and Perspective

Post by FireOnTheMountain »

oldasthmatic wrote:For you to belittle them for using that term is somewhat arrogant, especially at your age.
Its not belittling to preach humility. I think about this subject a lot, perhaps too much because in the end, 1st world problem, but I have personally found activities involving very individualized experiences (notably climbing or heavy endurance undertakings) are predisposed to these thoughts of perspective.

After these few couple years of going through phases of perspective while devoting the vast majority of my free time to being out and about exploring different places at different times of the day/year the only thing I have come up with is the manner in which you present yourself when revealing your "accomplishments" means everything. It is indeed 100% true, as TallGrass mentioned above, one person's warmup 5k time is another's PR and thats a wonderful thing because its all personal. But its always healthy to step back from yourself and look at the big picture. Be proud of your achievement but good god don't spray.

So does that mean only super BA Stevie House and a whole slew of notable climbers/mtneers can share their outings? Absolutely not. Some of the very talented display their achievements in an obnoxious manner also while some we have never heard of because they just don't give a f*ck and truly climb for themselves. Others hide behind a "I'm inspiring the world!" cloak. oh stfu, people cling to idols, they will find one if its not you.

Thats all I'll really say about the subject I guess...if only I knew 50 hashtags, this would be an opportune time to let em fly.
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Re: Adventure and Perspective

Post by Scott P »

“I see your point for the average Colorado 14er climber. But I’m different. I climb difficult routes in adverse conditions, I’ve survived an avalanche, I’ve soloed Ariana on the Diamond in winter in 1 hour, and I’ve skied the Capitol-Snowmass traverse solo in winter.”

Good for you. All that winter-climbing, solo-climbing, rock-climbing, mixed-climbing, ski-climbing, other-cool-sounding-adjective-climbing stuff puts you a level up from the tourist crowd, for sure. But Hermann Buhl made the first ascent of Nanga Parbat, 8,126 meters, solo, without oxygen. That’s an adventure, what you’ve done almost certainly can’t be compared.
I don't know about this one. Soling Ariana on the Diamond in winter in an hour would probably be in the league of what Buhl did on Nanga Parbat. It would be a completely different type of climb, but in the same league.
Adventure in Colorado’s mountains is pretty much dead. You can do all the difficult, dangerous stuff imaginable in the worst possible conditions, and chances are, if you’re in Colorado, someone else has almost certainly done it before you, and faster and in better style to boot.
This is probably true on the 14ers and in the densely populated areas, but there are still several un-climbed peaks in Colorado and plenty of un-climbed routes as well. "Almost certainly" is not accurate in many regions. You just need to get out more.
“I climbed [insert big foreign mountain], therefore I am an adventurer.”

Possibly. But you probably used a guide, had the most modern and reliable equipment, and took a very well established route. I’m not saying it wasn’t hard, and I probably couldn’t have done it. But that doesn’t mean you’re the next Edmund Hillary.
"Probably used a guide" is definitely an exaggeration and generalization. There are plenty of us who have climbed plenty of foreign mountains without a guide.

As far as Edmund Hillary goes, he is one of my heroes and was a strong young man when he climbed Everest, but he never was much of a technical climber (at least when compared to some of the other climbers of his day). In fact, he really didn't climb that many mountains at all (only a few dozen), which may come as a surprise to some, so he really isn't the best example to use in your context. Although he became famous for climbing Everest, it is what he did after that that I admire him most for. He was an outstanding human being.
“So you’re saying adventure is only possible on first ascents.”

No. You could climb Masherbrum. That would be an adventure, even though it’s been done before.
One of my friends made a solo attempt on Masherbrum in 1975. He made it to 7350 meters (the summit is at 7820 meters) before being stormed off. Interestingly, he has never climbed with ropes (but does go canyoneering)! He was kind of crazy back then.

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You do make a good point about Colorado mountains as being more mundane than in many other parts of the world. I took this photo a few days ago of a spectacular peak that is definitely more of a mountain than any Colorado 14er (name the mountain for extra forum points):
ji.jpg
ji.jpg (70.41 KiB) Viewed 2870 times
Overall and on average, Colorado's mountains are probably the least rugged of the western states, with the exception of Nevada (though both Colorado and Nevada still have rugged mountains). Maybe New Mexico too? I haven't climbed enough peaks in that state to say for sure. The overall gentleness and accessibility of the Colorado is both a blessing and a curse.

By mountaineering definitions, all the standard routes on the Colorado 14ers are rated as easy.

That said though, it's often the (relatively) easy mountains that are the most deadly. Longs Peak, Mount Rainier, Mount Hood, and Mount Washington have all taken more lives than mountains such as Fitzroy or Masherbrum, though of course they see a lot more visitors as well. The mountains that kill the most people are not the ones that are the most difficult.
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Re: Adventure and Perspective

Post by spiderman »

People progress through different levels of adventures. Elbert was a huge quest for me 8 years ago when I first started hiking in Colorado with my son. Now we are dreaming in Denali. I hiked with a member who had the life long dream of going up Longs. She was daunted by the 3rd class but did great when she had someone to give her just a little bit of encouragement.

Everyone has different skills and level of experience. Sadly the truly great people who push the limits of human abilities usually end up dead. Messner was truly lucky to live through the 8000m quest and lost his brother in the process. I have lost some good friends from my Prominence community in the last few years. There have been way too many of our 14er friends who have died or nearly died. Be careful if you want to push your limits to your physical limits because unexpected stuff happens.

Scott, nice photo! Make sure Kessler doesn't kill any more Sherpa this summer.
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Re: Adventure and Perspective

Post by pbakwin »

Adventure & what constitutes adventure is highly personal. Adventure means doing something you didn't know you could do, having experiences you didn't know were possible. This can happen in the mountains, traveling in a foreign place (to you, it's a huge adventure, to the locals it's completely mundane), or sitting on a cushion and quietly exploring your inner experience. Allowing your sense of self to drop away can be (almost always is) terrifying. Perhaps that is the only true adventure - an adventure to the depths of Reality where no one can lead or accompany you.
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Re: Adventure and Perspective

Post by painless4u2 »

quote-adventure-is-just-bad-planning-roald-amundsen-4553.jpg
quote-adventure-is-just-bad-planning-roald-amundsen-4553.jpg (54.46 KiB) Viewed 2720 times
Bad decisions often make good stories.

IPAs + Ambien = "14ers" post (Bill M.)

In their hearts humans plan their course, but the Lord establishes their steps. Proverbs 16:9
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Re: Adventure and Perspective

Post by TravelingMatt »

Yesterday I had to come down a very ordinary walkup 13er with sore knees, terrain wet and slippery from rain and graupel and thunder overhead.

That was an adventure. Screw you.
You never know what is enough until you know what is more than enough. -- William Blake
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