Class 3 Routes Suggestions

Items that do not fit the categories above.
Forum rules
  • This is a mountaineering forum, so please keep your posts on-topic. Posts do not all have to be related to the 14ers but should at least be mountaineering-related.
  • Personal attacks and confrontational behavior will result in removal from the forum at the discretion of the administrators.
  • Do not use this forum to advertise, sell photos or other products or promote a commercial website.
  • Posts will be removed at the discretion of the site administrator or moderator(s), including: Troll posts, posts pushing political views or religious beliefs, and posts with the purpose of instigating conflict within the forum.
For more details, please see the Terms of Use you agreed to when joining the forum.
User avatar
dpage
Posts: 923
Joined: 7/4/2009
14ers: 58  2 
13ers: 28 3
Trip Reports (1)
 

Re: Class 3 Routes Suggestions

Post by dpage »

rijaca wrote:
Then the route classification is doubly wrong. Storm Peak is also Class 2.
You are correct that the easiest route up Storm is class 2 in the same way the easiest route up Longs is class 3.
buirechain
Posts: 10
Joined: 7/18/2016
14ers: 8 
13ers: 10
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: Class 3 Routes Suggestions

Post by buirechain »

dpage wrote:
rijaca wrote:
Then the route classification is doubly wrong. Storm Peak is also Class 2.
You are correct that the easiest route up Storm is class 2 in the same way the easiest route up Longs is class 3.
That goes back to one of my original questions about taking alternate routes up to make a route class 3. Do you (or anyone else) have a suggested class 3 route up Storm Peak? (For that matter, what's the class 2 route?) How is the exposure on the way up.

The MLW option wouldn't be workable, except I was starting to think about hiking from the Storm Pass trailhead via the North Longs Peak trail for a little extra elevation and distance (though, really, if for no other reason than to avoid the Long's Peak parking lot crowd), so if I would have to descend toward Chasm junction to pick up the suggested class 3 route to MLW. Is that the only class 3 route, or are there options that might be more amenable coming from the North Longs Peak trail?
User avatar
justiner
Posts: 4389
Joined: 8/28/2010
14ers: 58  8 
13ers: 138
Trip Reports (39)
 
Contact:

Re: Class 3 Routes Suggestions

Post by justiner »

buirechain wrote:That goes back to one of my original questions about taking alternate routes up to make a route class 3. Do you (or anyone else) have a suggested class 3 route up Storm Peak? (For that matter, what's the class 2 route?) How is the exposure on the way up.
I really think this is a strange way to go about this. Trying to make a route Class 3 by routefinding badly will train you to routefind badly. It's also probably a great way to find the most unstable and dangerous terrain in an otherwise safe area of a mountain. You're also missing a lot of what makes a harder route harder: commitment.

The Class 2 route is just to go up the thing. There's no trail, so there's no Class 1 route.

buirechain wrote: The MLW option wouldn't be workable, except I was starting to think about hiking from the Storm Pass trailhead via the North Longs Peak trail for a little extra elevation and distance (though, really, if for no other reason than to avoid the Long's Peak parking lot crowd),
Well, you'll have to go through Estes Park, which will probably be gridlocked, you'll have to pay to enter the Park, you'll most likely have to park and then take a shuttle to the Bear Lake area to start your hike, and then if you wanna talk about crowds? That's one of the most crowded trails in the entire Park. Alberta Falls may have a hundred people hanging out. You'll gain, I dunno, a mile or two more in hiking?


I'm kind of a big proponent of, if you wanna work on climbing, work on climbing, and think of it as a separate skill set you can then apply to the mountains. When climbers work on their endurance, they think of endurance the same way. Slogging a few miles to make a contrived route on a high peak just sounds silly to me.
buirechain
Posts: 10
Joined: 7/18/2016
14ers: 8 
13ers: 10
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: Class 3 Routes Suggestions

Post by buirechain »

justiner wrote: I really think this is a strange way to go about this. Trying to make a route Class 3 by routefinding badly will train you to routefind badly. It's also probably a great way to find the most unstable and dangerous terrain in an otherwise safe area of a mountain.
It depends on if there's a good class 3 route or not (which is why I was asking for more details). As has been pointed out, there are often multiple good routes up a mountain.
justiner wrote:You're also missing a lot of what makes a harder route harder: commitment.
Maybe, to go back to my original post, this is why I don't consider myself a real climber. I'm not interested in a harder route for its own sake. The previous thread that suggested finding class 3 routes where class 2 gave the lack of commitment as a positve. If you get in over your head or find loose rocks you can back off, take a break, go to class 2. That makes sense for a novice or someone with my motivation--assuming the alternate route is safe.
justiner wrote:Well, you'll have to go through Estes Park, which will probably be gridlocked, you'll have to pay to enter the Park, you'll most likely have to park and then take a shuttle to the Bear Lake area to start your hike, and then if you wanna talk about crowds? That's one of the most crowded trails in the entire Park. Alberta Falls may have a hundred people hanging out. You'll gain, I dunno, a mile or two more in hiking?
No.

(Okay, I won't leave it at that.) Yes, I will have to go through Estes, but I normally reach the trailhead somewhere around dawn, so there will be no gridlock going up. There will be some gridlock going back, but through Estes, but not all that much. I'll be more annoyed with the traffic going down the canyon, and I have to do that wherever I park. I won't have to pay to enter the park (they don't bother having people out collecting money before the crowds show up) and even if I did I should really get a new annual parks pass. You're also confusing Bear Lake trailhead/Glacier Gorge trailhead and Storm Pass trailhead. None of them fill as quickly as Longs Peak trailhead because you don't have people looking for alpine starts. The first two are quite busy, though if you arrive early you only get the tourists on the way back. I've been the first or second person up to some of the lakes in the area. Storm Pass trailhead is tiny (4 cars I think) just down road from Bierstadt Lake trailhead and I am pretty sure it's a very quiet trail. I haven't actually been on the Boulder Brook trail or North Longs Peak trail, and that's another reason why I'd like to do that (whereas, I just hiked from the Longs Peak trailhead last weekend, and I'll be doing the same in a month and a half). (The distance comment was as much an excuse to make a sarcastic comment about parking as a real reason).

But, seriously, I know know the park fairly well and how to enjoy it while avoiding the tourists.
justiner wrote:I'm kind of a big proponent of, if you wanna work on climbing, work on climbing, and think of it as a separate skill set you can then apply to the mountains. When climbers work on their endurance, they think of endurance the same way. Slogging a few miles to make a contrived route on a high peak just sounds silly to me.
I don't disagree, which is why I'm planning on starting with lower mountains (though everyone wants to suggests 13ers and 14ers)--probably something in the Gem Lake/Lumpy Ridge area first. But I have been eyeing Storm Peak and Mount Lady Washington for a while so if there is a good, sensical 3rd class route for either of those then one or both might be a good place later on to go to see if my muscles and endurance are ready without worrying about giant drop offs and to, generally, have fun.

The contrived route would be if I wanted to hike from Storm Pass trailhead, up to Granite pass, down to Chasm junction so I could do class 3 up the eastern side of MLW.
User avatar
justiner
Posts: 4389
Joined: 8/28/2010
14ers: 58  8 
13ers: 138
Trip Reports (39)
 
Contact:

Re: Class 3 Routes Suggestions

Post by justiner »

*shrug* I mean, what do I know.
jerseybrian
Posts: 173
Joined: 9/11/2014
14ers: 39  1 
13ers: 22
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: Class 3 Routes Suggestions

Post by jerseybrian »

All of those threads mentioned that go over this every year will have so many great suggestions for building skills for climbing class 3/4 peaks. They have all the info you need. I'd make suggestions but they're all the same as in the threads. The front range scrambles would be a good one for you. FYI it doesn't take much arm strength at all to do the keyhole. Leg strength is what's important. Also, you could get into trouble trying to go off route to do class 3 in the Long's area. Check out the trip reports for doing the grand slam and see about the sneak through the keyboard of the winds. What happens if you climb up something you can't climb down and become disoriented? Lots of potential for that to happen there. Be careful!
When I get out I feel more alive - Doug Coombs
buirechain
Posts: 10
Joined: 7/18/2016
14ers: 8 
13ers: 10
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: Class 3 Routes Suggestions

Post by buirechain »

jerseybrian wrote:All of those threads mentioned that go over this every year will have so many great suggestions for building skills for climbing class 3/4 peaks. They have all the info you need. I'd make suggestions but they're all the same as in the threads. The front range scrambles would be a good one for you. FYI it doesn't take much arm strength at all to do the keyhole. Leg strength is what's important. Also, you could get into trouble trying to go off route to do class 3 in the Long's area. Check out the trip reports for doing the grand slam and see about the sneak through the keyboard of the winds. What happens if you climb up something you can't climb down and become disoriented? Lots of potential for that to happen there. Be careful!
Thanks for the suggestion about the Keyboard of the Winds. The first few Grand Slam reports start with (basically) having ascended Longs Peak, descend toward the south east, but I'll keep poking. I did find one route elsewhere that talks about an ascent from Black Lake to Keyboard and Pagoda, with class 3 getting up to the ridge, though that describes the keys themselves as class 2 (well, the ones that aren't 5). If I can find more that might work, or I might decide against it, but it's worth considering.

I definitely don't want to go up in the Long's area without a route (and a good one). It sounded like someone has a class 3 route for Storm Peak that might or might not work. But if I don't hear more of the details, I'll have to shelve it. (Heck, I think the class 3 Gems would work to start with, and are probably more than I need, but I still need to do research into routes for those--I don't want to go anywhere, Longs area or not, without a good idea of a route).

Yeah, I'm probably overdoing the class 3 preparations for Longs, and I expect I'm in good enough shape already, but that's something I'd rather be over prepared for.
User avatar
cardgenius
Posts: 108
Joined: 1/21/2015
14ers: 40  8  4 
13ers: 77 8 3
Trip Reports (0)
 

Re: Class 3 Routes Suggestions

Post by cardgenius »

Bump
Post Reply