Hiking All 14ers Except Culebra?

[walkthesky]

Poo. They don't "think" they own that land, they do own it.

it's interesting that homo sapiens believe that we can "own" the dust we are made of. we make up fancy paperwork to convince ourselves and others of this fact. but in the end, the peaks that have been there for untold ages stand unchanged, long after our insignificant 70-year-blip of an existence comes to an end.

and now, a poem i saw to confuse us all further:

The Ojibwe word for stone, asin, is animate. Stones are alive. They are addressed as grandmothers and grandfathers. The universe began with a conversation between stones.

A thousand generations of you live and die in the space of a single one of our thoughts.
A complete thought is a mountain.
We don't have very many ideas.

When the original fire which formed us subsided, we thought of you.
We allowed you to occur.
We are still deciding if that was wise.

[Derek]

Also, I can't support people who think they "own" mountains. God put the mountains there for us to enjoy and for some rancher to charge a ridiculous fee makes me ill.
John

I have a really nice chuck of grass outside of my front door....please don't take it just because its nice and you don't want to see me have it for myself. But I'll let you walk on it for a nickel.

Seriously though, coming from the east where it seems like EVERYTHING is private, I think its amazing that of all the 14ers, there is only one that we have to deal with this issue. (I know...I'm an optimist.)

[gb]

Any and every paid fee to the landowners of Culebra is a vote for more privatization of the mountains. To say it's OK to pay for Culebra IMO is to say it's OK to pay for ANY mountain. It's the principle.

It would be a bummer if landowners that currently allow free access to other peaks started to charge $, but on the other hand if the success/popularity of Culebra led other landowners that currently just close their land to open it up with fees, that would be a good thing. There are some peaks and routes that I wouldn't mind getting on that are currently closed due to private property access.

Take Little Bear, for example: The "old" standard route was reputedly safer and more enjoyable than the hourglass (the most dangerous standard route, IMO). The landowner no longer grants access, but if he did, many people might choose to pay for it rather than play russian roulette in the hourglass.

[gb]

Here's my case for Culebra-

The whole 14ers thing is silly on so many levels, anyway. The 54 best peaks to climb or ski aren't the 14ers (though some are). Anyone in Denver/Boulder could spend several seasons in IPW, the park, the gores, and have better and less crowded climbing than most of the 14ers offer. Setting a goal of climbing the 14ers, however, does "force" a climber to have many different experiences compared to just climbing the peaks in the backyard. There is a different feel to climbing the fried egg circus of Long's vs. the conglomerate knobs of the Crestones, vs the wildflowers of Handies. And it's not just the climbing- it's discovering all the great towns and areas that serve as basecamps for climbs of the 14ers, from the urban hippster paradise of Boulder, to sleepy towns like Lake City or Creede, to the one gas station of Gardner.

Culebra is a pretty unassuming peak, but it rates higher than most of the 14ers on the uniqueness scale. San Luis is CO's oldest town, and locals there may speak spanish as a first language despite being multi-generational americans. The history of Cielo Vista is fascinating IMO, as are the ideas of communal ownership that the locals have fought over for years. Culebra is less traveled and beat up than other 14ers, and there is no mistaking that you are on someone else's property. When we climbed and skied it in winter, we knew we were doing something few people have (legally) had a chance to do.

So, what I'm saying is that being in the ABC club is really selling yourself short of one of the 14ers' most unique and worthwhile experiences, taken as a whole. Pay the 100 bucks and decide for yourself whether or not it was worth it.

[Chris P.]

The Ojibwe word for stone, asin, is animate. Stones are alive. They are addressed as grandmothers and grandfathers. The universe began with a conversation between stones.

A thousand generations of you live and die in the space of a single one of our thoughts.
A complete thought is a mountain.
We don't have very many ideas.

When the original fire which formed us subsided, we thought of you.
We allowed you to occur.
We are still deciding if that was wise.

After reading this, I thought of what might happen if a person trying to poach Culebra was caught by the ranch hands who occasionally patrol the peaks while packing sidearms (and they do), and offered that poem as an explanation as to why they had a right to be there. I imagine that the redneck ranch workers might find the "hippy talk" too overbearing and the solitude of the mountains too convenient to resist doing away with you right there.
...and the stones would most likely allow it.

[Jim Davies]

it's interesting that homo sapiens believe that we can "own" the dust we are made of. we make up fancy paperwork to convince ourselves and others of this fact. but in the end, the peaks that have been there for untold ages stand unchanged, long after our insignificant 70-year-blip of an existence comes to an end.

Total BS. If everything is insignificant and we are just dust, then why are you bothering to comment? Shouldn't you be out talking to a rockpile or something?

Besides, the peaks won't stand "unchanged" for long, geologically speaking. The Rockies have only been there for 0.1% of the Earth's existence, and they'll be gone in another 0.1%.

[walkthesky]

it's interesting that homo sapiens believe that we can "own" the dust we are made of. we make up fancy paperwork to convince ourselves and others of this fact. but in the end, the peaks that have been there for untold ages stand unchanged, long after our insignificant 70-year-blip of an existence comes to an end.

Total BS. If everything is insignificant and we are just dust, then why are you bothering to comment? Shouldn't you be out talking to a rockpile or something?

Besides, the peaks won't stand "unchanged" for long, geologically speaking. The Rockies have only been there for 0.1% of the Earth's existence, and they'll be gone in another 0.1%.

thank you. your comment illustrates perfectly the human arrogance and anthropocentrism i was trying to bypass with an alternate take on things. just trying to get us out of the box a little. a tough thing for all of us.

as ed abbey said in the beginning of hayduke lives, those who take this book seriously will be shot. those who do not take it seriously will be buried by a bulldozer.

[rob runkle]

I was wondering if anyone here has hiked all the 14ers except Culebra because they didn't want to pay the $100. I'm leaning towards not paying now even though it means I won't hike all the 14ers. However,I have no problem paying for the train that goes to Chicago Basin, as I'm paying for a train ride and not for the actual hike. Anyone else in the same boat?

Personally I like the idea that we have at least one 14er Culebra that looks like it did before the massive increase in peak bagging made many 14ers overcrowded. Your pretty much guaranteed to have a great experience on Culebra in terms of solitude. Worth $100 to me.

+1

[Jim Davies]

If a 14er was for sale I would buy one.

Bobby Hill has stated that he bought the ranch including Culebra to make money. I'm sure he's open to offers, assuming you have the $20-30 million or so it would require.

[TravelingMatt]

So, what I'm saying is that being in the ABC club is really selling yourself short of one of the 14ers' most unique and worthwhile experiences, taken as a whole. Pay the 100 bucks and decide for yourself whether or not it was worth it.

This comment and others raise the question: Has anyone paid to hike Culebra multiple times BECAUSE it is private? Part of the reason people send their kids to private schools and join private country clubs is to be away from the ordinary rifraff, after all.

[Jim Davies]

Has anyone paid to hike Culebra multiple times BECAUSE it is private?

When I was there, one of the other hikers was doing it for the third time over a few decades (going back to the $25 days). Each time it was because a friend wanted to do it, as he wasn't close to finishing the 14ers himself.

Personally I probably wouldn't do it again, even if it were $5 and next door, just because of the hassle of getting a reservation.

[JeffR]

All decent reasons to go/no go. What a beautiful piece of private property! Lucky son-of-a gun.

My vote based on my personal experience is pay and join a large group of good people and have a hoot of a good time.
Hooking up with a slew of other folks, some I knew and some I did not, having a nice time in town, dinner, hiking up to the chapel, setting up camp, hanging out, then getting up to a wonderful day of hiking up and down a nice mellow 14'er, and Red Mountain to boot. (Yeah, I went the $150 route.) Met some great hiking buddies that I hang with to this day. (What price, friendship?). As I spent the $150, plus tip, I reflected on the fact that I was lucky enough to be able to hike the other 53 or 57 without paying a fee, just federal taxes. Yeah, I agree it sucks, but unlike other things that suck, there are benefits... like Culebra would be a nice finisher. Mellow enough to bring a group and party hardy.

Pardon if this sounds confrontative, but... what in the world did you tip for?

[covfrrider]

Pardon if this sounds confrontative, but... what in the world did you tip for?

Duh?!?! The happy ending of course!

[Chicago Transplant]

I plan on joining the "ABC" group eventually.

$100 for one mountain = a bit steep but doable if chasing a goal.

$100 per mountain for 54 mountains = $5400 = WTF?!?!?

Any and every paid fee to the landowners of Culebra is a vote for more privatization of the mountains. To say it's OK to pay for Culebra IMO is to say it's OK to pay for ANY mountain. It's the principle.

If a 14er was for sale I would buy one.

If I could afford it I would buy Culebra, let hikers on it as well as any of the neighboring 13ers and 12ers of course. I would make them sign a waiver, but not charge anything. I would still limit the volume to 25 people per outing to keep it pristine. Winter ascents and leashed dogs are okay any time. Hunters would still have to pay, you can't kill elk on my land for free - at least give me some steaks

[Gary Brady]

I wonder if they just charge the fee to keep the numbers down on their property. If I owned the mounain, I don't think I would want hundreds of people driving on my roads, using the mountain, and leaving their mark in a big way.