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Culebra Peak - scam or Legit?

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Pay or Steal

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Steal
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Culebra Peak - scam or Legit?

Postby marmotman » Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:09 pm

I’m new to this site as well as relatively new to Colorado and the mountains here. I wanted to open up some discussion on Culebra Peak. I’m inclined to steal the peak but I’m open and curious to other philosophies on the subject. To me it seem selfish to charge and I’m finding it hard to respect the owners enough to pay when I could just sneak on. But like I said I’d like to hear others opinions. Also, does anyone know what the penalty is for getting caught…just curious.

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Re: Culebra Peak - scam or Legit?

Postby Doug Shaw » Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:13 pm

marmotman wrote:To me it seem selfish to charge and I’m finding it hard to respect the owners enough to pay when I could just sneak on.


That single sentence may contain more hypocrisy than any single sentence I have ever read.

There is nothing magical about a 14er - it is no dissimilar from any other piece of land anywhere. Imagine if ten thousand people a year came and wanted to camp in your front yard...

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Postby Ken Gross » Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:21 pm

I think Marmotman is an Alias....but who's...

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Postby cheeseburglar » Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:47 pm

If you knew what they charged for people to hunt on the ranch, you would think the peak bagging charge was too little!
Culebra Peak is entirely privately owned, unlike the other peaks that access is cut off too. They do incure costs to maintain the access to the peak, such as maintaining the road to Four-Way.
If there was another way up the mountain, people would probably do it. But I don't think there is an easy way, and I don't think anyone one on this site will tell you if there is.
"Stealing" the peak would be very difficult. I suspect this would be a multi day task unless you are an endurance freak.
If you have serious problems with paying maybe you could go work on the ranch for a couple of days, kind of a trade scheme? Or you could think about it as a contribution to maintaining the ranch in it's current state, rather than having them sell it off to create 35 acre McRanches with McMansions on them.

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Postby Aubrey » Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:50 pm

This is a pretty complex topic. Initially, years ago, my thoughts aligned with yours. There's still quite a bit up for debate, but I can kind of see the other side.

In the ranch's defense, they do have a lot of paperwork, reservations, insurance liabilities, etc. to deal with. Not to mention, they own some pricey property. And, as I've learned, they seem to have a lot of respect for the mountain. So they're not just a bunch of money-greedy entrepreneurs as it may appear on surface. Rather, they're quite friendly, and they happily work with people on this site (among other sites and the CMC, for that matter).

Personally, I'm just thankful that they even allow people on their property. If you want to get upset, look into the Wilson fiasco. Or the neverending Dem/Linc/Bross problems.

And if the $100 bothers you, there are 57 other great, FREE 14ers to climb in Colorado. Besides, Culebra isn't the most exciting in the bunch. But for those trying for all of them, it's a critical one.

Regardless, please don't trespass on the Culebra property.

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Postby Ken Gross » Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:00 pm

I dont know much about the Ranch... but it sure seems like they are good stewards. I would pay $100 to Climb it... especially if that means there wont be the big crowds of some of the other 14ers.

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Postby KeithK » Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:05 pm

Actually, it appears that marmotman is legit... http://www.14ers.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=7183&highlight=marmotman

Which is inconsequential, because trespassing is bull$#!t, and completely unnecessary. Just respect the rights of the landowners, and be thankful that they do seem to be very strong stewards of the wilderness that they own. Judging from the group hike last weekend, it doesn't seem like there's much to complain about.
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Postby wasclywabbit » Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:57 pm

Just because we as climbers value a certain point of land more than another because it is higher does not, nor should it, abrogate the owner's private property rights. If the "Harmonic Peace Family" decides that your back yard is the center of the universe and they want to wait for the mother ship there should you have to allow them to trample your yard while they wait? I think not.

Stealing this peak is a remarkably selfish and immature thing to do and only jeopardizes access to those of us willing to play by the rules. I climbed Culebra last week with a group from 14ers.com and found the ranch staff to be very friendly, helpful and better stewards of the land than 90% of the people who use the high country for recreation in one form or another.

If you can’t afford to climb Culebra right now wait until you can, the mountain isn’t going anywhere.

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Postby Cruiser » Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:58 pm

I say "Poach It!". And when you do please be sure to write up a trip report with lots of pictures of yourself on the route. :shock:
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Postby benners » Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:10 pm

hehe, marmotman is legit. I know because he is my climbing partner and lives in the room next to me.

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Postby Beaker » Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:41 pm

Hey, I say go ahead and sneak onto the property to bag it yourself. Maybe if enough people could do this the current owners can cut-off access completely and the rest of us won't need to worry about ever climbing it.

Seriously, if the $100 is too much or even if its just the principle of paying there are far more exciting mountains (not just the 14ers) that are FREE!!! Steal all those that you can! :lol:
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Re: Culebra Peak - scam or Legit?

Postby CorduroyCalves » Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:12 pm

Doug Shaw wrote:
marmotman wrote:To me it seem selfish to charge and I’m finding it hard to respect the owners enough to pay when I could just sneak on.


That single sentence may contain more hypocrisy than any single sentence I have ever read.

There is nothing magical about a 14er - it is no dissimilar from any other piece of land anywhere. Imagine if ten thousand people a year came and wanted to camp in your front yard...


That's hardly a fair comparison, considering the size of people's yards and the size of that ranch, but I'll digress.

I'm curious to know, though, for those who are against "stealing" Culebra, if you're also against hiking Lincoln/Democrat/Bross during the closure, and for those of you who are for stealing the peak, have you or would you do the same with Lincoln/Democrat/Bross?
Life is too short to pay full retail for outdoor gear!

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