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Mt. Evans Road Fiasco GETS WORSE?

Colorado 14ers access and fee issues only, please
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Postby Spam » Mon May 28, 2007 8:58 pm

What the hell is the fine? It would be worth it to flood the court with a bunch of fines that are overturned. Nothing pisses off a judge more than wasting their time. And by the way Meteor is correct, Summit Lake, Winter Park Ski area and Red Rocks are all owned by my employer the City and County of Denver! I can claim I am working up there and park then huh?
"Getting to the top is optional, getting down is mandatory." -- Ed Viesturs

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Postby Todd Caudle » Mon May 28, 2007 9:04 pm

Here's the part that details where they can charge fees, and if you look at subsection (D), you'll notice that none of the USFS-administered places on Mt. Evans have ALL the listed amenities, as is required to charge a fee:
"(f) Standard Amenity Recreation Fee.--Except as limited by subsection (d), the Secretary may charge a standard amenity recreation fee for Federal recreational lands and waters under the jurisdiction of the Bureau of Land Management, the Bureau of Reclamation, or the Forest Service, but only at the following:

(1) A National Conservation Area.

(2) A National Volcanic Monument.

(3) A destination visitor or interpretive center that provides a broad range of interpretive services, programs, and media.

(4) An area--

(A) that provides significant opportunities for outdoor recreation;

(B) that has substantial Federal investments;

(C) where fees can be efficiently collected; and

(D) that contains all of the following amenities:

(i) Designated developed parking.

(ii) A permanent toilet facility.

(iii) A permanent trash receptacle.

(iv) Interpretive sign, exhibit, or kiosk.

(v) Picnic tables.

(vi) Security services.
"

That last one's kinda funny, when you consider that their "security services" people are more prone to bother us law-abiding, access-challenging mountain-lovers than any "real" bad guys. Then again, Bill did take an illegal photo of Evans when he made his Summit Lake stop. I can hear the strains of Judas Priest's "Breakin' the Law" rolling through my brain right now.
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Postby Spam » Mon May 28, 2007 9:08 pm

Todd Caudle wrote:(4) An area--

(A) that provides significant opportunities for outdoor recreation;

(C) where fees can be efficiently collected; and



Well they got two out of four requirements! god kinda helped them with the first one though! They seem to be great at C. Well the government does try to find one thing they do well and stick with it!
"Getting to the top is optional, getting down is mandatory." -- Ed Viesturs

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Postby guitmo223 » Mon May 28, 2007 9:15 pm

Nice Bill. I'm surprised you didn't get your ass hauled to jail.
"Although prepared for martyrdom, I preferred it be postponed" - Sir Winston Churchill

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Postby Meteor » Mon May 28, 2007 10:00 pm

Todd Caudle wrote:"(f) Standard Amenity Recreation Fee.--Except as limited by subsection (d), the Secretary may charge a standard amenity recreation fee for Federal recreational lands and waters under the jurisdiction of the Bureau of Land Management, the Bureau of Reclamation, or the Forest Service, but only at the following


Here they're talking about Section 3(d) which was already quoted above. So it doesn't even matter if they have the necessary ameneties such as fixed toilets, picnic tables, etc, because Section 3(d)1a says you can't charge for parking along roadsides.

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How Many Passes Will it Take?

Postby RamonBusboom » Mon May 28, 2007 10:04 pm

OK,

I have to add my two cents here. We MUST pick a date. The big question is how many white passes do you all think they have made up in the little booth to hand out? My bet, 5 to 10 at most.

So if we can get 20+ cars to meet prior to the booth and go in back to back to back, I wonder how many "ummmmm's" and "deer in the headlight stares" we would get from the 11th guy in line.

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Postby Todd Caudle » Mon May 28, 2007 11:14 pm

meteor: You're absolutely right, but since they'd likely try to include Summit Lake parking or summit parking lot parking in their "this area has amenities, therefore you have to pay" scam, this subsection knocks it right out of the park, since they don't have the six specified amenities in any one place, as required by law. Technically speaking, and as outlined most excellently in the Western Slope No Fee Coalition's letter to the Colo. Transportation Commission, there is nowhere on the Mt. Evans highway that the USFS should be allowed to collect a fee. But I'd be willing to let them put self-service pay stations at Summit Lake and the summit parking lot if they'd remove the entrance booth and find somewhere else for the greenshirts to stalk their prey. Like Iowa. Gotta be some permit fee criminals out that way, dontcha think?
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Postby Todd Caudle » Mon May 28, 2007 11:17 pm

One more thing: It would almost be poetic to do this little protest of 20, 30, 50 cars asking for a white pass on Independence Day. Might not work for a lot of you guys, but it's an interesting concept, no?
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Postby BillMiddlebrook » Tue May 29, 2007 6:27 am

If anyone wants to arrange a "Mt. Evans Drive-By" date, it might get some needed attention. I can't be the point person on it because I work with the USFS on various other projects, including the Lincoln, Democrat, Bross issue.

It doesn't even have to be a group thing; individuals asking questions at the gate will show the district that there is confusion since several news articles came out about the road ownership and apparent problem between the USFS and CDOT.
Only SNOW will end the madness

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Postby Chris P. » Tue May 29, 2007 6:55 am

Although the irony of doing this on independence day is a good thought, there are going to be hundreds of people swarming the area that day as it is. I vote we pick a time when it is less likely there will be so many tourists there.

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Postby Todd Caudle » Tue May 29, 2007 7:41 am

Bill, does the forum have any kind of poll option? I don't see one, so I'm guessing it doesn't.
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Postby BillMiddlebrook » Tue May 29, 2007 7:45 am

You bet.
But it's only on a new thread - it doesn't snow up on reply posts.
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