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Getting out of hand

Info on gear, conditioning, and preparation for hiking/climbing. Gear Classifieds
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Re: Getting out of hand

Postby Hungry Jack » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:41 am

Patagonia's pricing is much more about its brand name and its power to compel people than its costs of production and operations. Not saying they are BS. I admire them for their success.

But it is great to have many choices of high quality outdoor products that are relatively affordable. Heck, even a cheapo ALPS tent can get you through most backpack adventures. This is one of the great benefits of capitalism that capitalist haters don't seem to notice. We as consumers are made much better off by the increases in quality and affordability due to capitalistic systems.
I need more dehydrogenase.

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Re: Getting out of hand

Postby SuperiorTrailHiker » Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:07 pm

I think that there are some differences in craftsmanship, depending on the brands you select, but among well-established companies, very probably not enough to matter for stuff like 14er hiking.

I've never been above 14,421, so I've never needed "serious" Alpine gear, but for what I do, to pick one company (which I do not work for), Marmot makes durable gear that works, for a third of Patagonia or Arcteryx. I just wore the same Marmot softshell I paid 80 bucks for and have had for years on a cold and windy Mt. Massive, and I've worn it from Longs to Isle Royale to the Boundary Waters in January, and it keeps me warm, dry, doesn't bunch or pull, and seemingly cannot wear out. There may be some slight differences in fit with a Patagonia jacket, but for me, never enough to matter.

I guess the brand carries some cachet, but I do not roll around the hills with people who would possibly care, so it would have to be a very deeply discounted Pat rack for me to make a purchase.

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Re: Getting out of hand

Postby ChicagoMike » Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:34 pm

"Made for deep powder days"....Well we don't have those here in Colorado anymore so fortunately I don't have to go take out a second mortgage to buy a new jacket.

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Re: Getting out of hand

Postby PaliKona » Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:08 pm

^^^we don't? Guess last spring was in my dreams

What do ppl here use for inbounds skiing? Hardshell or soft?

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Re: Getting out of hand

Postby Dakota » Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:45 pm

:-k I prefer Hardshell. With the option of layers I feel they cover the largest temperature and weather changes. Also as someone who wipes out plenty, I enjoy their lack of ability to become too saturated.
If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts.
-Albert Einstein

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Re: Getting out of hand

Postby SkaredShtles » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:10 pm

Pssssssh. $700 for a jacket is NOTHING when you're living like a tycoon. 8)

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Re: Getting out of hand

Postby BlueKhan » Fri Aug 16, 2013 1:00 am

PaliKona wrote:^^^we don't? Guess last spring was in my dreams

What do ppl here use for inbounds skiing? Hardshell or soft?


Hardshell unless I've got a "hard" climb...then soft.

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Re: Getting out of hand

Postby PaliKona » Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:08 pm

What hard shells would you recommend that aren't crazy pricey but are solid?

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Re: Getting out of hand

Postby PaliKona » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:59 pm

Any shell advice?

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Re: Getting out of hand

Postby DaveSwink » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:02 am

I have had great perfomance from Golite's Tumalo shell for 3 season climbs. Cheap, light, tough, pitzips, works with my helmet. I only pull it out when it rains, or it is windy, or it is very cold. I depend upon base layers (up to R1 hoody) for warmth.

Edit: whoops, this was not intended as a recommendation for a skiing shell. :oops:

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Re: Getting out of hand

Postby RogerMN » Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:22 am

Sorry to drudge up an old thread but I just had to comment on this...it made me think back to when I was full time race crew and worked BOP course prep at BC starting in the summer all the way through the WC races and Pro Events after. I think I wore my Carharrt jacket more than any other outer layer(except on race days we had to wear Vail/BC coats). Most of these days were over 10 hour days on the mountain in all conditions(summer rains while setting up tv broadcast cables, injecting and watering down the course, setting A nets, doing cat work/snow depth, subzero 4:30 am chair rides carrying 75 lbs of crap, heavy snowstorms, running in crampons on the Brink for 5 hours fixing gates' etc) with some 12+ hour days scattered in there. I don't ever remember feeling like I needed something more/better. Now that I have a "career" and some disposable income I find myself getting sucked into making purchases as discussed above. Makes me rethink what I really need/don't need in the mountains.

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Re: Getting out of hand

Postby ezabielski » Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:20 pm

A lot of people in this thread blame the high prices on brand image. But let's not forget that Gore has a brand image too, probably one of the most powerful outdoor brand images there is. The licensing of their technology is extremely strict and monopolistic. (An article about Gore-Tex and the WPB industry: http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-gear/Insane-in-the-Membrane.html). Even if you have a non-Gore-Tex shell, many other fabrics, like eVent, are riding the momentum created by Gore. At best, Gore-Tex and eVent offer truly mediocre performance in three season conditions. But yet, people follow Gore-tex products with religious devotion, as if that will keep them dry if they just believe a little bit harder.

The hardshell market is saturated with choices, from Dri Ducks to the Arc'teryx Theta SVX. Without even getting into "alternate shells" like the GoLite Chrome Dome, or a cheap emergency poncho, there are plenty of choices for everyone.

Also, I am not sure why people get all fussy when they see people using expensive gear. They didn't spend any of your money to buy it, did they? No. Get hiking. Pass them if it makes you feel better.

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