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Avy Shovel/Fluke/Picket

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Avy Shovel/Fluke/Picket

Postby KyleS » Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:07 pm

http://www.google.com/patents/US20090021032
I was thinking about this today and after a quick google search, it appears someone beat me to it. It's an avy shovel that the blade doubles as a fluke and the handle doubles as a picket. As far as I can tell, no one is manufacturing or selling them so maybe there is some fundamental reason it won't work. Anyone care to comment? :-k

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Re: Avy Shovel/Fluke/Picket

Postby HuskyRunner » Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:58 am

My voile shovel has holes in the blade for using as a fluke and any handle that detaches can be used as a dead man. Seems like the handle might be a little uncomfortable to dig with?
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Re: Avy Shovel/Fluke/Picket

Postby KyleS » Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:37 pm

HuskyRunner wrote:My voile shovel has holes in the blade for using as a fluke
That was my first thought, too: Could I just convert my avy gear so I don't have to carry additional gear for emergency anchors? I'm not an engineer, but it's my understanding that flukes and pickets have specific shapes for a reason and a normal shovel blade will not make an acceptable fluke.
http://skibanter.com/showthread.php?t=9296

I (probably) have the same voile shovel and I've actually run cord from one corner of the blade, through the handle, over to the other corner of the blade - effectively making minimalist backpack straps. It's great because it's super light and easy so I'm more likely to carry it in-bounds and for quick side-country than a backpack. However, the cord gets damaged by rubbing on the metal edge, and I wouldn't trust my life with it.

HuskyRunner wrote:any handle that detaches can be used as a dead man
Agreed. Any number of things can be used for a deadman anchor. But, I'm looking something that could be quickly pounded into hard snow - more useful in, say, a crevasse fall situation. Ideally this could be done while still in self-arrest, whereas a deadman cannot.

HuskyRunner wrote:Seems like the handle might be a little uncomfortable to dig with?
That's a good point, but I'd be surprised if that was the stumbling block that killed this idea. What about some sort of plastic slider handle?

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Re: Avy Shovel/Fluke/Picket

Postby jrs1965 » Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:13 pm

Old school Euro standards required a hole in the tip of each AT skis. This allowed the ski and the shovel to be integrated to form a sled. I can post some pics later if you need more details...

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Re: Avy Shovel/Fluke/Picket

Postby GravityPilot » Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:16 pm

HuskyRunner wrote:My voile shovel has holes in the blade for using as a fluke and any handle that detaches can be used as a dead man.


Definitely not what the holes are for, Kyle has it right for pack strap rigging (also emergency sled rigging), though I (and many others) don't agree with wearing a shovel like that in avalanche terrain.

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Re: Avy Shovel/Fluke/Picket

Postby HuskyRunner » Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:47 pm

GravityPilot wrote:
HuskyRunner wrote:My voile shovel has holes in the blade for using as a fluke and any handle that detaches can be used as a dead man.


Definitely not what the holes are for, Kyle has it right for pack strap rigging (also emergency sled rigging), though I (and many others) don't agree with wearing a shovel like that in avalanche terrain.



Per Voile: All Voile T6 avalanche shovel scoops have deadman holes in the scoop to be used for snow anchors or for making a rescue sled.
"I made up my mind not to care so much about the destination, and simply enjoy the journey." David Archuleta
"And if they get out there they see, son of a bitch, this is a beautiful planet." Jim Whittaker

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Re: Avy Shovel/Fluke/Picket

Postby GravityPilot » Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:32 pm

Ah you mean the holes in the middle not the ones in the corners, my mistake, Voile has made a metric crap ton of shovels. I (personally) wouldn't use my shovel blade as a deadman, not really what it's designed for, besides then you are out a shovel blade. Then again if it's life and death....

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Re: Avy Shovel/Fluke/Picket

Postby jrs1965 » Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:17 pm

Photo simulation of how my old school AT skis and shovel can be converted into a sled...

Image

Image

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Re: Avy Shovel/Fluke/Picket

Postby pvnisher » Sat Apr 27, 2013 8:05 pm

A fluke and a deadman are not the same thing. The holes can be used for dead manning, but not fluking.
The downside of the OP is that once you use one piece you're out all of them. Perhaps useful as an emergency rig, but not as useful as individual pieces.
Throw a snow saw and probe onto it and you'd (kinda) be set. :mrgreen:

Re: Avy Shovel/Fluke/Picket

Postby KyleS » Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:32 pm

pvnisher wrote:The downside of the OP is that once you use one piece you're out all of them.
That was the only fault I could think of: Now how are you going to dig out your fluke? You could probably get a picket out with an axe, but a fluke is going to take a while. You could use your partners shovel, once you rescue them, maybe?

GravityPilot wrote:I (and many others) don't agree with wearing a shovel like that in avalanche terrain
Why?

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Re: Avy Shovel/Fluke/Picket

Postby GravityPilot » Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:43 pm

GravityPilot wrote:I (and many others) don't agree with wearing a shovel like that in avalanche terrain
KyleS wrote:Why?


If you get rinsed in a slide that thing will tear right off you. People lose backpacks, clothing, etc. Sure you may think, "If I'm in the slide why do I need a shovel?" Maybe you're not the only one in for the ride and maybe you don't get buried. You're not an effective rescuer if you don't have your gear. Avy rescue gear belongs inside a backpack period.

Re: Avy Shovel/Fluke/Picket

Postby KyleS » Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:36 pm

GravityPilot wrote:If you get rinsed in a slide that thing will tear right off you. People lose backpacks, clothing, etc... ...Avy rescue gear belongs inside a backpack period.
Wait, didn't you just say that people lose backpacks, too?
But yeah, I see your point.

My point is that a backpack in your car isn't going to save anyone. Better to have a system that you will carry all the time than a system you carry sometimes.
And to the original topic, you'd need all sorts of gear to make use of a picket or fluke so you'd obviously be wearing a backpack.

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