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WInter Pack

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Re: WInter Pack

Postby dsunwall » Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:55 pm

Dave B wrote:The Cilo is made from Dyneema, which is just short of indestructible (from a backpack standpoint) and has the price to match.


GO-LITE material 100% Gridstop Nylon + Dyneema® (210 denier)

Cilogear's Woven/Non-Woven Dyneema® WorkSacks


apparently go-lite does not have much Dyneema in the Dyneema claim.

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Re: WInter Pack

Postby climbingaggie03 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:11 pm

Dave B wrote:
dsunwall wrote:just curious, why would I pay $1500 for a 4lb 6oz 75L cilogear when I can get a 4lb 75L BD for $240? looks like cilogear has a lot more attachments, all I can conclude from photos.

http://www.cilogear.com/wdywo.html

http://www.rei.com/product/813388/black-diamond-mission-75-pack


The Cilo is made from Dyneema, which is just short of indestructible (from a backpack standpoint) and has the price to match.



I personally don't need the W/NW dyneema, but would love to have a set of those packs, however the standard 75L worksack only weights 4lbs 8oz and it probably holds more than 75L (though I don't think I'd want to carry that much) I know my 60L will hold 90L so who knows how big that thing really is.

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Re: WInter Pack

Postby YouAndWhatGendarme » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:21 pm

dsunwall wrote:
Dave B wrote:The Cilo is made from Dyneema, which is just short of indestructible (from a backpack standpoint) and has the price to match.


GO-LITE material 100% Gridstop Nylon + Dyneema® (210 denier)

Cilogear's Woven/Non-Woven Dyneema® WorkSacks


apparently go-lite does not have much Dyneema in the Dyneema claim.



For a bit of a technical breakdown, the "non-woven Dyneema" used in the Cilogear products isn't a 'pure' Dyneema construction either; it appears to be Cuben Fiber CTF3 (by a different name for some reason, maybe licensing?), which is Dyneema fibers sandwiched and laminated between layers of polyester. The upside is that it has amazing tear strength and abrasion resistance, but relatively poor puncture resistance compared to a heavy denier ripstop nylon like Cordura. Plus, still being niche, it's relatively expensive.

The GoLite pack listed uses a 210d ripstop nylon base fabric with the Dyneema component woven in as a grid (hence the 'gridstop') so that it functions like reinforcing your pack fabric with chicken-wire. If you manage to get a rip or puncture within the nylon base fabric, it will only spread to the Dyneema grid line. CiloGear actually uses the same exact 210d Dyneema gridstop fabric in some of their other offerings, like the 30L Worksack here.

The 'tell' when looking at fabrics is that Dyneema can not be any color but white. The molecular density of ultra-high-molecular-weight polyethylene (the fancy name for Dyneema) prevents it from absorbing dye.
Punish your body to perfect your soul. - Mark Twight

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Re: WInter Pack

Postby Steve Gio » Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:57 pm

http://www.trailspace.com/gear/rei/pinnacle-40-pack/

I've got send props to REI here. I use the Pinnacle 40, though it looks like it has been replaced with a 50 and 35 version with some enhancements. Good fitting lightweight pack. Very simple and easy to use with the option to remove the back pannel for lighter weight and versatility.

Will REI send me an extra coupon for this advert? :)

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Re: WInter Pack

Postby TallGrass » Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:13 am

Mindy wrote:I currently have a BD, ... my ice axe would keep turning as I was hiking though, strangest thing, so the sharp point would have seriously hurt me if I had fallen on it ...

Can you explain more? I can't see how it'd be rotating as with traditional loops (left, yes improvising with a ball peen on the SD Revival I just got) or the BD ones an axe couldn't flip like that. Or was it hanging from the loop like a T and free to swing around?

Image
Not sure if I'll do more 14ers. The trip reports are too tiring. :wink:

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Re: WInter Pack

Postby dsunwall » Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:42 am

TallGrass wrote:Can you explain more? I can't see how it'd be rotating as with traditional loops (left, yes improvising with a ball peen on the SD Revival I just got) or the BD ones an axe couldn't flip like that. Or was it hanging from the loop like a T and free to swing around?


When the pack has the loop, shown with your hammer, I've seen people mistakenly think twisting the axe on the loop will make it more secure, when in reality it makes it very easy for the axe to slip out.

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Re: WInter Pack

Postby Mindy » Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:36 pm

dsunwall wrote:
TallGrass wrote:Can you explain more? I can't see how it'd be rotating as with traditional loops (left, yes improvising with a ball peen on the SD Revival I just got) or the BD ones an axe couldn't flip like that. Or was it hanging from the loop like a T and free to swing around?


When the pack has the loop, shown with your hammer, I've seen people mistakenly think twisting the axe on the loop will make it more secure, when in reality it makes it very easy for the axe to slip out.


This is my current pack. http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-us/shop/mountain/packs/octane-pack

I do insert the axe in the loop, then twist and flip up, attaching the axe handle with the straps (wrapping the strap around the handle before I clip it in and draw it down tight). My initial thought is maybe the AWESOME ergoACTIV™ suspension has something to do with it. The hip belt actually moves with your hips (pivots/turns) as you hike or scramble.

That's one big hammer! What do you use that for?

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Re: WInter Pack

Postby Johnson » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:57 pm

Mindy wrote:
This is my current pack. http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-us/shop/mountain/packs/octane-pack

I do insert the axe in the loop, then twist and flip up, attaching the axe handle with the straps (wrapping the strap around the handle before I clip it in and draw it down tight). My initial thought is maybe the AWESOME ergoACTIV™ suspension has something to do with it. The hip belt actually moves with your hips (pivots/turns) as you hike or scramble.



The Octane rocks. Mindy, I have never twisted the axe after inserting through the loop and it's never rotated on me. That may be the deal. Also, does the point where the hip belt attaches to the pack squeak on yours? I really need to put something on my to stop the squeak cuz I am often thinking that I am being followed by marmots.
In his hand are the depths of the earth; the heights of the mountains are his also. - Psalm 95:4

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Re: WInter Pack

Postby TallGrass » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:49 pm

Mindy wrote:That's one big hammer! What do you use that for?


:-" :-$ O:)

Anyhow, there's: How to Attach an Ice Axe to a Pack
Image Image Image Deuter (doyt-ur) pics
Image< BD manual vs. Figure4's page (photo linked) > Image
The BD manual is a little lacking on this point, no?

I didn't see any of these suggesting to twist it first, though it seems many do (middle of each page):
http://bushcraftusa.com/forum/showthread.php/59103-Strapping-boys-axe-to-backpack/page2
http://bushcraftusa.com/forum/showthread.php/59103-Strapping-boys-axe-to-backpack/page3

Again, as someone who likes those topological bar puzzle thingies, I'm intrigued how it could be flipping on you, Mindy.


Johnson wrote:I am often thinking that I am being followed by marmots.
Johnson, you ARE being followed, but each time they duck and hide just as you start to turn your head to check. You probably think I'm kidding, but ask yourself, "What else is there for marmots to do for fun?" Oh, Yahtzee gets old quick with them.
Not sure if I'll do more 14ers. The trip reports are too tiring. :wink:

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Re: WInter Pack

Postby dsunwall » Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:11 pm

proper, no twist, cradles the pick.

20121217_204842 (Medium).jpg
20121217_204842 (Medium).jpg (134.56 KiB) Viewed 267 times


twist it

20121217_204955 (Medium).jpg
20121217_204955 (Medium).jpg (91.81 KiB) Viewed 267 times


no cradle, axe slides right out.

20121217_205007 (Medium).jpg
20121217_205007 (Medium).jpg (93.43 KiB) Viewed 267 times



if these don't make it clear, I made a movie as well.

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Re: WInter Pack

Postby Mindy » Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:18 am

Dunswall - thank you :wink: I got it now. NO TWIST! I was shown do to it that way previously, but glad you set me straight!

Tallgrass, I missed your explanation that you were improvising with the hammer the first time I read your post. Let's just say I was happy to catch that this morning. :)

Johnson..... the Squeak! Yes, have received numerous comments over the past year on the trail as well. When solo, it would drive me mad at times (because I would of course forget to address the squeak between hikes) so out came the IPod. I have since purchased a lubricant, using just a small amount.

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Re: WInter Pack

Postby SolarAlex » Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:22 am

i have a mammut trion guide (45L +7) that has been working great so far. It is the most comfortable pack i have ever owned, and it just swallows gear. The thing i like best is the side access to the main compartment, so you dont have to dig through it to find what you need.

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