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When to use two sleeping pads

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Re: When to use two sleeping pads

Postby Dancesatmoonrise » Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:20 pm

On Memorial Day 2010, at Snowmass Lake, I slept on snow, with two pads; one air, one foam. I was cold. I get cold easily; zero body fat. But I think I've found the solution.


carson_h wrote:foam --> R2.8, 19oz
prolite --> R3.8, 30oz
downmat9 --> R8.0, 43oz
So the top of the line Exped downmat is lighter than the foam+prolite combo (43oz vs. 49oz), it has a better R value (8.0 vs. 6.6), and it's a much lower volume solution.

Like Caleb, I used to use the women's Prolite. The R value is higher, and the color would scare off most dangerous wildlife.
But the Prolite is still thinner than I like for my back.

Then Britt showed me his downmat. I did the calculations above. Got a DM 9 toward the end of last winter. Used it once in winter so far. ZERO complaints. For it's insulative ability and comfort, it's really not too heavy. BTW - on the gram scale my DM-9 weighs in at 34.5 oz. (Yes, I'm the biggest ultralight weenie you'd want to meet...) IMO, given requirements for the conditiions, I'd say this IS the ultralight solution to a good night's sleep in winter at altitude.

carson_h wrote:The foam pad can't leak/pop so it's a safer solution, but the numbers for the Exped are compelling...

Yes, there is this... :( So far I've never popped any type of air pad, or had any leak. But a potential liability one must accept.
But FWIW, I've tested the pine-bough method. It works. It is very time-consuming, and not very environmentally friendly, but it's worth remembering in the event of an emergency.


Alan Arnette wrote:FWIW, I used to use the combo Therm-a-Rest Z-Lite (closed cell) plus a Thermarest air but switched to only Exped for all 7 Summits including Denali and Vinson where I was on snow 100% of the climb. Love the comfort as a side sleeper and never felt the cold seep through. The bottom of the ExPed does get wet but didn't seem to matter and dried quickly.

Thank you Alan! This is exactly what I wanted to hear.
I think I'll be very pleased for a long time to come with the Downmat 9 as a winter solution. It also made my sleeping bag way warmer. No more heat to ground.
Yay! :-D

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Re: When to use two sleeping pads

Postby trent » Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:29 pm

Dancesatmoonrise wrote:On Memorial Day 2010, at Snowmass Lake, I slept on snow, with two pads; one air, one foam. I was cold. I get cold easily; zero body fat. But I think I've found the solution.


carson_h wrote:foam --> R2.8, 19oz
prolite --> R3.8, 30oz
downmat9 --> R8.0, 43oz
So the top of the line Exped downmat is lighter than the foam+prolite combo (43oz vs. 49oz), it has a better R value (8.0 vs. 6.6), and it's a much lower volume solution.

Like Caleb, I used to use the women's Prolite. The R value is higher, and the color would scare off most dangerous wildlife.
But the Prolite is still thinner than I like for my back.

Then Britt showed me his downmat. I did the calculations above. Got a DM 9 toward the end of last winter. Used it once in winter so far. ZERO complaints. For it's insulative ability and comfort, it's really not too heavy. BTW - on the gram scale my DM-9 weighs in at 34.5 oz. (Yes, I'm the biggest ultralight weenie you'd want to meet...) IMO, given requirements for the conditiions, I'd say this IS the ultralight solution to a good night's sleep in winter at altitude.

carson_h wrote:The foam pad can't leak/pop so it's a safer solution, but the numbers for the Exped are compelling...

Yes, there is this... :( So far I've never popped any type of air pad, or had any leak. But a potential liability one must accept.
But FWIW, I've tested the pine-bough method. It works. It is very time-consuming, and not very environmentally friendly, but it's worth remembering in the event of an emergency.


Alan Arnette wrote:FWIW, I used to use the combo Therm-a-Rest Z-Lite (closed cell) plus a Thermarest air but switched to only Exped for all 7 Summits including Denali and Vinson where I was on snow 100% of the climb. Love the comfort as a side sleeper and never felt the cold seep through. The bottom of the ExPed does get wet but didn't seem to matter and dried quickly.

Thank you Alan! This is exactly what I wanted to hear.
I think I'll be very pleased for a long time to come with the Downmat 9 as a winter solution. It also made my sleeping bag way warmer. No more heat to ground.
Yay! :-D


Dangerous birds and reptiles??
Since mammals can not see in color.

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Re: When to use two sleeping pads

Postby dsunwall » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:58 pm

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Sleeping-Pad-Reviews

I have to agree with these findings, although I have never tried an Xped.

I generally carry a 14"x14" closed cell piece for a camp chair and backup pad if I ever have a leak. Under the shoulders seems most critical for me, the deflated pad with all the foil I always think will still help keep out some of the cold. Could always find enough other stuff to sleep on I think. Maybe not for weeks but a few nights. Fortunately, it's never happened.

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Re: When to use two sleeping pads

Postby CO Native » Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:16 pm

I always carry two when I'll be sleeping on snow. I'm just not willing to accept the risk of a puncture in my insulated air mat. Plus I like to use the closed cell foam pad while cooking and hanging out before bed. It stands up to that abuse better.

I managed to put a whole in my air mat one winter trip. I was using the foam one as a shelter over my face since I was camping in a bivy and it was snowing. Once the air leaked out of the air mat I was frigid. The snow just steals the heat away from under you. The more it melts the more you sink and the snow just wraps around you. After getting the foam under me again it was much better. Not near as nice as the air mat, but enough to make the night reasonable.
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Re: When to use two sleeping pads

Postby mts4602 » Tue Dec 11, 2012 12:04 pm

Thanks for all the info!

Any thoughts between the Exped 7 and Exped 9.
Matt

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Re: When to use two sleeping pads

Postby davebks » Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:15 pm

i went with the deluxe 7. i think its called the 7UL now. I love it.
I found the 9 was too heavy and more then i needed. with a good bag the 7 has been great, even in nepal and peru. im 6'0-6'1 ish and fit great on the longer 7.
my buddy got the 9 for aconcagua and loved it, but it is a bit heavier and bulkier and to be honest, that much harder to pump up. esp in the cold.

oh, get the chair kit!!! its awesome. AND, always carry a patch kit. there are some great cheap ones at REI, although the mat does come with a tube and patches.
i still bring some shoe glu or something too in case. nothing worse then a popped mat. esp if you use the chair kit too close to a fire. they should make those chair kits fireproof!

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Re: When to use two sleeping pads

Postby BillMiddlebrook » Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:24 pm

I also have the Exped Downmat 9 and love it for winter/spring, cold-ass camping. I used to do the double pad thing, but just got sick of the extra weight & bulk when the approach didn't include a snowmobile.
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Re: When to use two sleeping pads

Postby Tim A » Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:31 pm

This is certainly a newb question, but on examining the specs on REI.com, the Exped UL 7 only has an R value of 3.1. How does it keep you guys so warm on snow with such a low rating?

And since this is a pad-thread, anyone have any experience with the Big Agnes Insulated Q-core Pad? Haven't seen it mentioned here yet.
http://www.rei.com/product/828412/big-agnes-insulated-q-core-pad

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Re: When to use two sleeping pads

Postby I Man » Wed Dec 12, 2012 4:34 pm

It seems there are 2 schools of thought - 1 sufficient pad vs 2 pads.

I think the determining factor is if people have had a pad fail at an inopportune time before.

I like the Exped DownMat and it is very comfy and warm, however, I was on a rather serious route and my air mattress (Big Agnes Insulated Air Core) got a slow leak and I wound up sleeping on my pack for a few miserable nights.

These days I use the same pad with a Therma-Rest Z lite foam. The combined R rating of these 2 is 6.7. The BA Pad is smaller than a Nalgene in my pack and the foam goes on the outside.

I am sure the single pad would be the same, but I am not willing to risk it on longer trips.
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Re: When to use two sleeping pads

Postby ezabielski » Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:52 pm

TheodenKing1 wrote:This is certainly a newb question, but on examining the specs on REI.com, the Exped UL 7 only has an R value of 3.1. How does it keep you guys so warm on snow with such a low rating?

Are you sure people aren't talking about the Exped UL DOWNMAT 7? This pad has down fill in the inflated tubes. R-Value 5.9.

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Re: When to use two sleeping pads

Postby ETA » Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:56 pm

I slept on a Expad -7 last night in 3 inches of snow above Twin Lakes. Warm as could be, I never felt the cold of the ground below. More money than I ever spent on a sleeping pad, but worth every penny.
3 or 4 miles, can't be much further than that.

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