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Difficult Situation With a Newbie

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Re: Difficult Situation With a Newbie

Postby susanjoypaul » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:10 am

TallGrass wrote:
susanjoypaul wrote:In fact, you should involve yourself as much as possible. Start asking him questions, like: 1) How many miles is it up to the lake? 2) How much does your pack weigh...

Might even ask how he's going to cross the all the beaver ponds.

He's looking to overcome obstacles and you're making yourself another one, thus he'll...

Not quite sure what you're trying to say here, but I am most definitely not trying to be "another obstacle" - just trying to encourage a little more thought and preparation by asking questions. Discovering the answers serves to educate, and that leads to making better decisions.

This approach generally leads to one of three outcomes:
(1) the person learns more about the potential obstacles, prepares for them, and is successful in his quest, OR
(2) he learns more about the potential obstacles and concludes that they require further investigation and preparation (delaying the quest) OR
(3) he determines that the obstacles are insurmountable, in which case the quest is abandoned.

I would never discourage anyone from chasing their dreams, but I still believe that - in the quest for success in reaching them - brains beats bravado every time.

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Re: Difficult Situation With a Newbie

Postby peter303 » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:13 am

Buy some life insurance on him and make yourself a beneficiary.

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Re: Difficult Situation With a Newbie

Postby trent » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:47 am

susanjoypaul wrote:
TallGrass wrote:
susanjoypaul wrote:In fact, you should involve yourself as much as possible. Start asking him questions, like: 1) How many miles is it up to the lake? 2) How much does your pack weigh...

Might even ask how he's going to cross the all the beaver ponds.

He's looking to overcome obstacles and you're making yourself another one, thus he'll...

Not quite sure what you're trying to say here, but I am most definitely not trying to be "another obstacle" - just trying to encourage a little more thought and preparation by asking questions. Discovering the answers serves to educate, and that leads to making better decisions.

This approach generally leads to one of three outcomes:
(1) the person learns more about the potential obstacles, prepares for them, and is successful in his quest, OR
(2) he learns more about the potential obstacles and concludes that they require further investigation and preparation (delaying the quest) OR
(3) he determines that the obstacles are insurmountable, in which case the quest is abandoned.

I would never discourage anyone from chasing their dreams, but I still believe that - in the quest for success in reaching them - brains beats bravado every time.



WORD

I think I might have heard that "3 step" followed by "chasing this and that" on dr. Phil or something when I used to be "in touch" with myself. Then again- maybe not. :lol:

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Re: Difficult Situation With a Newbie

Postby susanjoypaul » Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:42 am

trent wrote:WORD

I think I might have heard that "3 step" followed by "chasing this and that" on dr. Phil or something when I used to be "in touch" with myself. Then again- maybe not. :lol:

Ha! Well I learned it myself - and wrote it this morning - after raising two very strong willed kids who never listened to anything I tried to tell them, but have been pretty good at figuring things out for themselves. I think they just got sick and tired of all the questions... :-D

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Re: Difficult Situation With a Newbie

Postby trent » Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:29 pm

Be thankful there is no dog involved.

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Re: Difficult Situation With a Newbie

Postby susanjoypaul » Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:24 am

susanjoypaul wrote:
TallGrass wrote:He's looking to overcome obstacles and you're making yourself another one, thus he'll...

Not quite sure what you're trying to say here, but I am most definitely not trying to be "another obstacle" - just trying to encourage a little more thought and preparation by asking questions. Discovering the answers serves to educate, and that leads to making better decisions.

Oops... think I misread your comments the first time around, Mr. Grass! We're saying the same thing.

I wonder how his plans are coming along. I'll bet it's really pretty up there right now with all the new snow! And the cold... and the wind :-D

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Re: Difficult Situation With a Newbie

Postby globreal » Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:14 pm

trent wrote:


Somehow I failed to see how this video progressed this discussion. Am I missing something?

So, Mr. Azureabyss, did this friend of your complete his early December climb to the summit of Wilson Peak?
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die."
~John 11:25

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Re: Difficult Situation With a Newbie

Postby TallGrass » Tue Dec 11, 2012 3:34 am

susanjoypaul wrote:... Mr. Grass! We're saying the same thing.


Yep, pretty much. "If you're the expert, great! Educate me!" is a good way to flesh out the difference between the informed and uninformed which sometimes causes reflexive thought, other times defensiveness (if their emperor has no clothes). Seems most on this like like to get beta from varying, even conflicting, sources to look at a challenge from different angles. I've met some who seem to have (non-hiking-related) crackpot ideas/goals/methods, but letting them flesh out their plan I found it to be novel, inventive, clever, or otherwise having something I could learn from.

I guess it could happen to hikers who walk in with gear too, but every now and then someone wants to "educate" me on how to ride a motorcycle when they see my helmet or jacket at bar/coffeehouse/restaurant. To litmus, especially if there's the scent of BS or misinformation, I'll ask them how would they respond to a given hazard and after letting them think about it for 3-5 seconds slam my hand on the table and say "BOOM! Dead!" Replying to their startled WTF expression I calmly say, "You often don't even get a fraction of that much time to think, much less think and react, out on the road before you hit something and or lose control. Don't have a plan and reflexes down ahead of time and you're toast." Another litmus is a snipe hunt like sending someone who thinks they know a lot about cars to get a radiator cap for a '68 VW bug (hence my beaver pond query earlier).

One thing I like about hiking and climbing is that it affords the time for planning and thinking out many (but not all) problems as they're encountered. It's a nice change of pace.

What do they say? Half the fun is planning, half is doing, and half is reliving it with tall tales afterward? :wink:
Not sure if I'll do more 14ers. The trip reports are too tiring. :wink:

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Re: Difficult Situation With a Newbie

Postby JDip » Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:10 am

TallGrass wrote:
What do they say? Half the fun is planning, half is doing, and half is reliving it with tall tales afterward? :wink:



..Wait I suck at math, but don't three halfs make 1.5?...
I want to know the thoughts of God. All the rest are details. -Albert Einstein

It's not the height of the mountain that makes it great, it is the mountain itself. -J.D.

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Re: Difficult Situation With a Newbie

Postby Presto » Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:36 pm

by JDip » Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:10 am

TallGrass wrote:
What do they say? Half the fun is planning, half is doing, and half is reliving it with tall tales afterward? :wink:


..Wait I suck at math, but don't three halfs make 1.5?...


Or as Yogi Berra would say, "Ninety percent of this post is half mental." \:D/ :wft:
As if none of us have ever come back with a cool, quasi-epic story instead of being victim to tragic rockfall, a fatal stumble, a heart attack, an embolism, a lightning strike, a bear attack, collapsing cornice, some psycho with an axe, a falling tree, carbon monoxide, even falling asleep at the wheel getting to a mountain. If you can't accept the fact that sometimes "s**t happens", then you live with the illusion that your epic genius and profound wilderness intelligence has put you in total and complete control of yourself, your partners, and the mountain. How mystified you'll be when "s**t happens" to you! - FM

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Re: Difficult Situation With a Newbie

Postby 12ersRule » Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:53 pm

Presto wrote:Or as Yogi Berra would say, "Ninety percent of this post is half mental."


My favorite Yogi Berra quote by far is: "When you reach a fork in the road, take it".

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Re: Difficult Situation With a Newbie

Postby Matt » Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:01 pm

Good ones!
I like these, which apply around this site from time to time:
Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded.

and
There are some people who, if they don't already know, you can't tell 'em.
We are all greater artists than we realize -FWN
A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone. -HDT
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