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Using a sleeping bag as a liner?

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Re: Using a sleeping bag as a liner?

Postby hotrod » Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:03 pm

I tried using a fleece liner. Not only was it bulky and hard to stuff into a carrying bag, but when I rolled around in the sleeping bag it got all twisted up because there was no "slip" factor. It did add warmth, though.
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Re: Using a sleeping bag as a liner?

Postby atalarico » Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:08 pm

This is helpful input! Thanks all!

I definitely would pair it with the ExPed down mat I have, and probably use it inside of my mountaineering tent. I'm going to give it a test run before the real deal, but who knows.

Cheers! I'm glad this thread is out there now for other people. =)

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Re: Using a sleeping bag as a liner?

Postby pvnisher » Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:41 am

Wearing a thick down jacket, snug hooded fleece (with a hood), warm hat, and insulated pants (MHW compressor or similar) inside your bag, paired with a double mat (foam and insulated inflatable) and you'll be pretty warm well below your bag's rating.
I have thought about this (even started a thread called "double bagging it", I think), but didn't like the idea of carrying 2 bags, when I could carry the same weight (in a jacket and pants) and have more utility.
If you aren't wearing all your clothes to sleep then you're carrying too much.

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Re: Using a sleeping bag as a liner?

Postby SurfNTurf » Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:19 am

pvnisher wrote:Wearing a thick down jacket, snug hooded fleece (with a hood), warm hat, and insulated pants (MHW compressor or similar) inside your bag, paired with a double mat (foam and insulated inflatable) and you'll be pretty warm well below your bag's rating.
I have thought about this (even started a thread called "double bagging it", I think), but didn't like the idea of carrying 2 bags, when I could carry the same weight (in a jacket and pants) and have more utility.
If you aren't wearing all your clothes to sleep then you're carrying too much.


+1. Add down booties. I also like putting hand warmers inside my socks, but that's just a luxury.
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Re: Using a sleeping bag as a liner?

Postby DeucesWild » Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:31 pm

This may be obvious to some, but you can get another 5-10 degrees out of your bag by wearing a warm hat while you're in it.
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Re: Using a sleeping bag as a liner?

Postby atalarico » Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:40 pm

We have strayed a bit.

I know a lot about sleeping bags, sleeping warm, liners, pads, etc. Trust me. Using one bag inside of another was just one topic I couldn't find a whole lot on.

If you aren't wearing all your clothes to sleep then you're carrying too much.


Really though? You've never been in a situation where it could drop another 20 or 30 degrees so you pack accordingly? I'll always gladly carry a little extra just in case I need another layer because an unexpected cold front moved in, etc. Also, from what I am getting out of this thread and research otherwise is that you're making yourself colder by wearing all of your bulky layers inside of a bag. It makes sense to me.

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Re: Using a sleeping bag as a liner?

Postby pvnisher » Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:55 am

atalarico wrote:Really though?


Yes. Although some safety margin is acceptable.

atalarico wrote:You've never been in a situation where it could drop another 20 or 30 degrees so you pack accordingly?


No. If the overnight forecast at the elevation I plan to sleep is for 0* F, I absolutely do not expect to see temps of -30* F.
If the forecast is for -30* F, I will stay home.

atalarico wrote:you're making yourself colder by wearing all of your bulky layers inside of a bag.


Close, but not quite. You are decreasing the individual thermal efficiency, but not the overall system. So you might not get 100% of the value from each, but you still get net insulation. Particularly if your down jacket is 800 fill and your bag is 800 fill, then they won't have a large effect on each other. And loss of loft in the bag due to the jacket is equal to the gain in loft from the jacket. And then you still have the leftover loft in the jacket and bag.
If you have a down jacket inside a heavy synthetic bag then your jacket will lose more insulative properties than with a down bag.

A snug hooded fleece won't cut down on your overall loft, neither will a nice hat. And a puffy jacket will fill in the dead space around your torso in the bag. Insulated pants will do the same. I doubt your bag is snug around your legs, yes?

For background, here is the Double Bagging it thread I started 3 years ago. I've since come into possession of some very nice equipment, but at the time I was really scavenging.
http://www.14ers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17965&p=218427&hilit=bagging#p218427

And here is another option for winter: a convertible bag with a zip-on top for cold nights.

http://www.backpacker.com/gear-zone-gear-review-high-peak-chameleon-200/gear/15365

atalarico wrote:I know a lot about sleeping bags, sleeping warm, liners, pads, etc. Trust me


Oh, I do. I was just adding in my thoughts since I had similar thoughts years back and decided against it for the reasons I mentioned above.

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Re: Using a sleeping bag as a liner?

Postby DeucesWild » Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:55 am

atalarico wrote:I know a lot about sleeping bags, sleeping warm, liners, pads, etc. Trust me.


If I'd have known how much of an expert you were about everything other than your topic of ignorance, I would have refrained from posting.

So sorry.
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Re: Using a sleeping bag as a liner?

Postby atalarico » Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:29 pm

I think you guys misunderstood my line about knowing about sleep systems and such. I was just trying to refocus the thread on the use of two bags, etc. I didn't mean to come across arrogant and unappreciative.

pvnisher wrote:
Yes. Although some safety margin is acceptable.

No. If the overnight forecast at the elevation I plan to sleep is for 0* F, I absolutely do not expect to see temps of -30* F.
If the forecast is for -30* F, I will stay home.

Close, but not quite. You are decreasing the individual thermal efficiency, but not the overall system. So you might not get 100% of the value from each, but you still get net insulation. Particularly if your down jacket is 800 fill and your bag is 800 fill, then they won't have a large effect on each other. And loss of loft in the bag due to the jacket is equal to the gain in loft from the jacket. And then you still have the leftover loft in the jacket and bag.
If you have a down jacket inside a heavy synthetic bag then your jacket will lose more insulative properties than with a down bag.

A snug hooded fleece won't cut down on your overall loft, neither will a nice hat. And a puffy jacket will fill in the dead space around your torso in the bag. Insulated pants will do the same. I doubt your bag is snug around your legs, yes?

For background, here is the Double Bagging it thread I started 3 years ago. I've since come into possession of some very nice equipment, but at the time I was really scavenging.
http://www.14ers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17965&p=218427&hilit=bagging#p218427

atalarico wrote:I know a lot about sleeping bags, sleeping warm, liners, pads, etc. Trust me


Oh, I do. I was just adding in my thoughts since I had similar thoughts years back and decided against it for the reasons I mentioned above.


I guess I was only speaking to the safety margin. I agree that sleeping in most of your layers keeps weight and frivolous carrying in check, but I always have a just in case layer of some sort.

Anyway, the more interesting notion is regarding the thermal efficiency and down layers. It actually makes sense. So, if I were to use my 700 fill down sweater on top inside of my 850+ fill Marmot Helium, inside my 750 fill REI Kilo Flash, it would net more insulation than not.

This would make extra sense when considering the system I would be using. Remember, the Marmot Helium I have is a women's so it's only 5'6" (I'm 5'4" so I still have room for water bottles and boot liners), which would go inside a men's regular Kilo Flash. The Marmot would then act to fill up the space inside the Kilo Flash and voila, warmer bag than just stuffing two men's regulars inside of each other?

I do appreciate the conversation, and the only reason I said the part about my knowledge of sleeping systems was just to prevent further unnecessary recommendations about sleeping pads, liners, etc.

:cheers:

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