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Missing Hiker - Last seen Saturday

Threads related to Colorado mountaineering accidents but please keep it civil and respectful. Friends and relatives of fallen climbers will be reading these posts.
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Please be respectful when posting - family and friends of fallen climbers might be reading this forum.
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Re: Missing Hiker - Last seen Saturday

Postby ColoradoGuy » Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:36 pm

Damn. I hate reading news like this. :(

RIP
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Re: Missing Hiker - Last seen Saturday

Postby Mel McKinney » Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:01 pm

So sad. Rest in Peace Joe. I hope there is more clarification soon too.

After reading the post from James' mother on the "Missing Hiker on Holy Cross" thread and tearing up, I was hoping to hear that Joe was found and doing okay. I hate hearing news like this too ColoradoGuy.
Mountains cast spells on me - Why, because of the way Earth-heaps lie, should I be Chocked by joy mysteriously; stilled or drunken-gay? Why should a brown hill trail Tug at my feet to go? Why should a boggy swale Tune my heart to a nameless tale Mountain marshes know?
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Re: Missing Hiker - Last seen Saturday

Postby RoanMtnMan » Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:19 am

Strange that a 74 year old hiker with dementia goes missing near Boulder at roughly the same time as this guy and it blankets the news. Haven't seen a single story about Joe. Both are equally unfortunate of course. The media loves these stories and it seems logical to want everyone in the world to know one of your friends or loved ones was missing. A moot point now, but during the search period it is important. Odd.
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Re: Missing Hiker - Last seen Saturday

Postby mattpayne11 » Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:34 pm

RoanMtnMan wrote:Strange that a 74 year old hiker with dementia goes missing near Boulder at roughly the same time as this guy and it blankets the news. Haven't seen a single story about Joe. Both are equally unfortunate of course. The media loves these stories and it seems logical to want everyone in the world to know one of your friends or loved ones was missing. A moot point now, but during the search period it is important. Odd.


Agreed, I have not found a single news story on it, wondering / thinking it may not be hiking related, perhaps suicide or something? I don't know, just know that it is sad and unfortunate.

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Re: Missing Hiker - Last seen Saturday

Postby RoanMtnMan » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:04 pm

mattpayne11 wrote:
Agreed, I have not found a single news story on it, wondering / thinking it may not be hiking related, perhaps suicide or something? I don't know, just know that it is sad and unfortunate.


I suspect you may be correct. Terrible regardless of the circumstances. I wish the best to the family. I just wonder why there wasn't the usual media rush.
Always follow the 7 P's. Proper Planning & Preparation, Prevents Piss-Poor Performance.

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Re: Missing Hiker - Last seen Saturday

Postby I fall a lot » Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:33 am

Matt Payne11

Perhaps speculation should be kept to yourself and not the forum, just food for thought.

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Re: Missing Hiker - Last seen Saturday

Postby highpilgrim » Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:49 am

Matt Payne11

Perhaps speculation should be kept to yourself and not the forum, just food for thought.


As usual.

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Re: Missing Hiker - Last seen Saturday

Postby jasonmiller » Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:35 am

I fall a lot wrote:Matt Payne11

Perhaps speculation should be kept to yourself and not the forum, just food for thought.



Why would that be? Sounds like a viable explanation for an unfortunate circumstance.

Truth is, if the death remains a mystery people are sure to come up with their own ideas as to what happened and discuss it for that matter and they are free to do so...

If an accident happened, well accidents happen and others can learn from the tragic event.


Condolences to the family..
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Re: Missing Hiker - Last seen Saturday

Postby kansas » Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:48 am

Steve summed it up nicely here. 'nuff said

sgladbach wrote:When I die.....include this in my last will and testament:

Feel free to post messages of condolence to my chlidren and family.

Do not ask for details (beyond those that a newspaper would report) so that you can "Learn" from my mistakes. Please ,Site Administrators: if you value me at all as a person, delete such requests immediately.

I have seen about 5% (That 5% often does more harm than the 95% does good) of every accident thread deteriorate into a useless guessing game designed to "analyze' the accident. In reality, it only serves to stir up feelings of guilt and loss amongst those left behind. The "lessons" learned never serve to prevent future incidents, because the armchair critics assimilate the info by convincing themselves that , "Since I take precaution "X", that will not happen to me." BS.

In every thread (and in at least one book where the author told me he didn't necessarily consider it important to interview the primary survivor), the critics boil the details down to some trite conclusion which can be filed under a particular chapter of stuff "not to do". Every time, you hear how there are no such things as "accidents"; the person performing the analysis can always explain how they would have prevented the accident. If only they could be there every time we climb!

These things are true:

Upside:
1. Training highlights preventable mistakes : PLEASE take a series of CMC or private courses designed to build skills. Repeat classes peiodically as long as you are a climber.
2. Mentorship and group participation can teach skills (Thanks, TomPierce for the fieldwork in Ruby Basin.) There is always something new to be learned from a partner.
3. GOOD books, i.e. Freedom of the Hills, written to teach actual skills, can help.
4. Time in the field teaches valuable, applicable (but not perfect) lessons.

Downside:
1. Climbing is dangerous and each climber must decide for themselves the level of risk they wish to assume.
2. Rocks move, feet slip, snow slides.
3.The exact conditions leading to an accident are never analyzed 100% correctly (witnesses are dead, traumatized, or non-existent), so the conclusions are always skewed.
4. Time in the field increases that opportunity for #1 and #2 to catch up with you!

What is useful:
1.Expressions of condolence.
2.Continued comfort and support to those left behind. An internet note and attendance at a memorial is 1% of what you COULD choose to do.
3.Take the memory of those lost with you each time you go into the field.

Remembering those who have passed will do more to heighten your own awareness of potential dangers than would a critque of their errors. Remember: you've already taken courses, participated with good mentors, and read valuable books. You know what mistakes can be made. You know that you can make zero mistakes and still die. Vigilance is the best defense and bringing along the memory of those lost partners will always heighten vigilance. Sadly, none of us are 100% vigilant.

Whether an 18 y/o boy with 2 years experience or a 70 y/o legend with 50 years of climbing, you could slip on some ice and die. If we're lucky, we might remember that and look twice before we take that next step.

ONWARDS!

Steve
"In the end, of course, it changed almost nothing. But I came to appreciate that mountains make poor receptacles for dreams."
— Jon Krakauer

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Re: Missing Hiker - Last seen Saturday

Postby DaveSwink » Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:56 am

So, newpaper reporters determine the only worthwhile discussion and learning from climbing-related tragedies?

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Re: Missing Hiker - Last seen Saturday

Postby kansas » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:05 am

dswink wrote:So, newpaper reporters determine the only worthwhile discussion and learning from climbing-related tragedies?


So after reading it, this is the conclusion you came to?

I suggest you reread it and apply some reading comprehension skills. I'm not saying you have to agree with it, but personally, I think Steve is spot on with this. You've been around here long enough to know that every time this forum tries to analyze an accident it turns into a sh!tshow of epic proportions, doing more harm than good.
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Re: Missing Hiker - Last seen Saturday

Postby DaveSwink » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:09 am

I don't believe that the cure for poor behavior by a few is to silence respectful discussion of accidents.

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