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What does it mean to "ski a 14er"?

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Re: What does it mean to "ski a 14er"?

Postby SeracZack » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:38 am

Another thought that came up to me, was the idea of skiing all the way from the top and then back to the car. When we say "I climbed peak so-and-so" that usually entails parking at the trailhead walking/hiking/climbing to the top and then descending back to the car. Should you have to ski back to the car so to speak?

Also, San Juan Ron: I know you were joking, and I had to laugh at that, but it also made me think, what's wrong with that? If you use your skis as floatation, and skin to the top of whichever mountain, but for whatever reason you don't ski down, does that count?

On the topic of the "best" line down the mountain, as far as I am concerned any line down the mountain should count as a ski descent, IMHO. However, I believe more in the idea that the line down the mountain is more of an expression of the individual and that every individual is different. Which is my reasoning any line down the mountain should count. I'd be interested to hear some different opinons on this though.
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Re: What does it mean to "ski a 14er"?

Postby SeracZack » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:43 am

gb wrote:This comes up quite a bit- here's 5 pages of good discussion from a few years ago: http://14ers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18903

Search Ivanic or Crossen if you want to read even more (on plenty of other sites as well, like tgr).


Great, thanks! That topic didn't come up when I searched for it.
Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.
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Re: What does it mean to "ski a 14er"?

Postby Bean » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:09 am

SeracZack wrote:Should you have to ski back to the car so to speak?

If you don't have a heavily modified 4-wheeler to drive up the Lake Como road and have to hoof it a couple thousand vertical feet before you even see a flake of snow, should a descent of Ellingwood and Blanca not count?

Where you park is irrelevant.
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Re: What does it mean to "ski a 14er"?

Postby SeracZack » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:15 am

Bean wrote:
SeracZack wrote:Should you have to ski back to the car so to speak?

If you don't have a heavily modified 4-wheeler to drive up the Lake Como road and have to hoof it a couple thousand vertical feet before you even see a flake of snow, should a descent of Ellingwood and Blanca not count?

Where you park is irrelevant.


I would count it if you had to hoof it down the road. But the question is there to think about and discuss. There has to be some kind of defining point between not skiing enough of it, and "all the way back to the car".
Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.
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Re: What does it mean to "ski a 14er"?

Postby Bean » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:39 am

SeracZack wrote:I would count it if you had to hoof it down the road. But the question is there to think about and discuss. There has to be some kind of defining point between not skiing enough of it, and "all the way back to the car".

There's a point where trying to define rules becomes pointless. 3000' weenies need not concern themselves with ski mountaineering.
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Re: What does it mean to "ski a 14er"?

Postby ajkagy » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:51 am

Bean wrote:There's a point where trying to define rules becomes pointless. 3000' weenies need not concern themselves with ski mountaineering.


+1

I still think why not count a peak if you have to downclimb 50ft from the summit to get to your line or continuous snow. Is keeping a list that big of a deal? Skiing + mountaineering is supposed to be fun, like you said weenies need not concern themselves with it.

I've skied quite a few peaks without ever going to the summit because either A. no snow, B. super thin snow, C. the objective was never the summit in the first place, but a separate line or couloir...summits are just extra bonuses
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Re: What does it mean to "ski a 14er"?

Postby SeracZack » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:26 am

Bean wrote:There's a point where trying to define rules becomes pointless. 3000' weenies need not concern themselves with ski mountaineering.


I agree with you 100%. Just wondering what others might think. To clarify somewhat, I am not trying to define rules, or set any of my own. I have never even skiied a 14er, let alone on a 14er. Just thought this could be an interesting discussion.
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Re: What does it mean to "ski a 14er"?

Postby Carl » Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:43 am

ajkagy wrote:I still think why not count a peak if you have to downclimb 50ft from the summit to get to your line or continuous snow.


Since you threw out a number, I'm curious if your opinion would change if someone downclimbs the top 300 vertical feet instead of 50? And the crux of the ski descent was in that top 300 feet. If Davenport had done that do you think it'd be wrong to count it?

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Re: What does it mean to "ski a 14er"?

Postby ajkagy » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:06 am

Carl wrote:
ajkagy wrote:I still think why not count a peak if you have to downclimb 50ft from the summit to get to your line or continuous snow.


Since you threw out a number, I'm curious if your opinion would change if someone downclimbs the top 300 vertical feet instead of 50? And the crux of the ski descent was in that top 300 feet. If Davenport had done that do you think it'd be wrong to count it?


correct me if i'm wrong, but there are no set rules for a ski descent right? Seems like a lot of people have their own standards and those standards are in good faith when saying you've skied a peak. I think the thing that matters most if you're counting peaks on a list is making the summit first. Having skis on at the summit and walking over rocks with your skis on to get to the snow is a bit silly to me, but everybody has their own standards.

50ft or 300ft downclimb to get to the snow I think is besides the point as long as you hit the summit.

if the crux has snow and you downclimb that, i would then not count it. It's definitely gray area in a low snow year when a crux or top of a normally filled in pitch is thin and can't be skied.
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Re: What does it mean to "ski a 14er"?

Postby DeucesWild » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:22 pm

Bean wrote:There's a point where trying to define rules becomes pointless. 3000' weenies need not concern themselves with ski mountaineering.


SeracZack wrote:I agree with you 100%. BLAH, BLAH. BLAH.


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Re: What does it mean to "ski a 14er"?

Postby RobertPetrowsky » Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:15 pm

As far as the downclimbing the crux section and counting it goes I would have to say it isn't skiing it. Some people like the one earlier who said taking one turn on a peak was skiing it need to admit they are not capable of skiing the 14ers. I've skied a few and on a bunch more and know that I'm not up to dropping off the top of Capitol. I wouldn't dream of saying I skied it if I climbed it then skied the apron under the secret chute.

I also believe in the rules that if it can be skied off the top by a better skier, but you don't do it, then you haven't skied it. The Crestones are a good example: if you aren't capable of skiing from the top take time to get better and go ski it again.

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Re: What does it mean to "ski a 14er"?

Postby letourneau41 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:32 pm

leadvilleclimber wrote:I also believe in the rules that if it can be skied off the top by a better skier, but you don't do it, then you haven't skied it. The Crestones are a good example: if you aren't capable of skiing from the top take time to get better and go ski it again.


So by your method of thinking if a better skier drops from the top of A Basin and an average skier only ski's from the midway point of the mountain. The average skier did not ski Abasin that day, correct?
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