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Grayrock group -- torched

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Re: Grayrock group -- torched

Postby tmathews » Fri May 18, 2012 3:12 pm

madbuck wrote:Update:
http://www.coloradoan.com/viewart/20120518/NEWS01/120518004/Fort-Collins-man-gets-citation-starting-Hewlett-Fire-while-camping

Alcohol stove...a little more surprising (to me) than an unattended campfire.


Just saw this on Twitter:

TheDenverChannel.com ‏@DenverChannel

The Forest Service has identified the man who started the #HewlettFire. Says they will pursue restitution. #CoFire.


Yikes. :shock:

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Re: Grayrock group -- torched

Postby colokeith » Fri May 18, 2012 3:17 pm

Using an alcohol fueled camp stove does not seem careless or negligent to me. I am kind of hoping that this guy doesnt' have to pay restitution.

Being stupid in the woods, or arson are one thing. Simple accidents do occasionally happen
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Re: Grayrock group -- torched

Postby larkinrx2 » Fri May 18, 2012 3:38 pm

guess its MRE's with the chemical heater pak for me since you can get fined if your jet boil sparks something off. Does the FS consider camping stoves an open fire?
What do you think I'm some kind of a jerk or something! - That's all I need the ashtray, the remote control, the paddle game, and this magazine, and the chair and I don't need one other thing, except my dog.
[Shithead growls at him]
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Re: Grayrock group -- torched

Postby madbuck » Fri May 18, 2012 4:24 pm

larkinrx2 wrote:guess its MRE's with the chemical heater pak for me since you can get fined if your jet boil sparks something off. Does the FS consider camping stoves an open fire?


When it comes to burn bans, camping stoves are considered separate from open fires:
http://www.jcfpd.org/coburndefinitions.pdf

That is, open campfires may be banned in some situations whereas camp stoves (with a proper valve) are not.

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Re: Grayrock group -- torched

Postby larkinrx2 » Fri May 18, 2012 5:28 pm

madbuck wrote:When it comes to burn bans, camping stoves are considered separate from open fires:
http://www.jcfpd.org/coburndefinitions.pdf

That is, open campfires may be banned in some situations whereas camp stoves (with a proper valve) are not.



actually it is listed under possible exemptions for stages 1 & 2, meaning if there is a fire ban and your stove is the cause they can still get you if they want

maybe they will add the fire extingusher clause and lump it in with the chain saw people?
What do you think I'm some kind of a jerk or something! - That's all I need the ashtray, the remote control, the paddle game, and this magazine, and the chair and I don't need one other thing, except my dog.
[Shithead growls at him]
I don't need my dog.

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Re: Grayrock group -- torched

Postby madbuck » Fri May 18, 2012 5:34 pm

larkinrx2 wrote:
madbuck wrote:When it comes to burn bans, camping stoves are considered separate from open fires:
http://www.jcfpd.org/coburndefinitions.pdf

That is, open campfires may be banned in some situations whereas camp stoves (with a proper valve) are not.



actually it is listed under possible exemptions for stages 1 & 2, meaning if there is a fire ban and your stove is the cause they can still get you if they want

maybe they will add the fire extingusher clause and lump it in with the chain saw people?


Well, an authorized fire (with permit) must be kept under control.
If you caused a wildfire, permit or no, you could certainly be cited for the fire, I would think -- and if you only got fined $300, I think most people would be OK with that.

OTOH, if there's a ban against stoves and you're merely using one, you can get fined for that (if "caught" by someone).

So either way: know what's allowed, and don't cause wildfires!

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Re: Grayrock group -- torched

Postby Greenhouseguy » Fri May 18, 2012 7:21 pm

bpko wrote:It's a damn shame this fire has to be in this area. There is a lot of cultural history that is present in Hewlett Gulch area. Anyone ever hear of the Gordon Creek Woman? It's a 12,000 year old burial just west (I believe) of Hewlett Gulch, which is one of the oldest burials known in the United States. All the woman's remains have since been excavated, but the surrounding region itself is still of great archaeological interest and research. I hope the fire doesn't affect the integrity of this site.

Have they announced the cause of the fire? Last I checked the causes were still unknown.

Fort Collins and the foothills to the west are shrouded in a haze. No matter where you go, it smells like you're standing right next to a campfire.


Wildfires near Mesa Verde actually exposed archaeological sites that had been obscured by dense undergrowth. Hope for the best, but expect the worst.

Another hidden gem that will likely be destroyed by this fire is a purple-flowered Prunus americana (wild plum) that was growing off of the Greyrock Trail. I had hoped to get offspring of this plant into cultivation someday. Well, maybe in some other lifetime...
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Re: Grayrock group -- torched

Postby larkinrx2 » Fri May 18, 2012 9:47 pm

The U.S. Forest Service says 56-year-old "person" of Fort Collins is accused of burning brush or grass without a permit. He faces a $300 fine and $25 processing fee. The Forest Service says it will also pursue Weber for restitution on the cost of fighting the fire.

Forest Service investigators say Weber was camping on the Hewlett Gulch trail. While camping he used a camp stove which uses alcohol. On Monday, the camp stove Weber was using started the wildfire. He tried to stomp out the fire, but couldn't. The Forest Service says he then fled as the fire spread.

Weber later reported that he started the fire to the Larimer County Sheriff's Office. There is no cell service at the location of the origin of the fire.


So by using the stove, which accidentally started the fire, they are charging him with burning brush/grass without a permit.........reason to not have that open flame in the woods
What do you think I'm some kind of a jerk or something! - That's all I need the ashtray, the remote control, the paddle game, and this magazine, and the chair and I don't need one other thing, except my dog.
[Shithead growls at him]
I don't need my dog.

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Re: Grayrock group -- torched

Postby coloradokevin » Fri May 18, 2012 11:53 pm

bpko wrote:It's a damn shame this fire has to be in this area. There is a lot of cultural history that is present in Hewlett Gulch area. Anyone ever hear of the Gordon Creek Woman? It's a 12,000 year old burial just west (I believe) of Hewlett Gulch, which is one of the oldest burials known in the United States. All the woman's remains have since been excavated, but the surrounding region itself is still of great archaeological interest and research. I hope the fire doesn't affect the integrity of this site.

Have they announced the cause of the fire? Last I checked the causes were still unknown.

Fort Collins and the foothills to the west are shrouded in a haze. No matter where you go, it smells like you're standing right next to a campfire.



Honestly, the fire might help with the archaeological site. Didn't the fire in Mesa Verde ultimately uncover a whole bunch of stuff that the NPS wasn't aware of? I mean, I guess these things could go either way, but I'll hope that maybe the fire will help the researchers discover more artifacts in that area!

As for the cause, 9news is now saying that it was a camp stove from a camper. That's too bad:

http://www.9news.com/news/article/268580/339/All-evacuations-lifted-man-cited-for-starting-fire


EDITED TO ADD: No sooner do I post this reply than I decide to read the rest of the thread and notice that others have already beat me to both of these points. I guess I'm just here for redundancy.



SilverLynx wrote:It's not ecologically bad, no. But I camped at Pingree Park for 4 weeks (the site of the Hourglass Fire of 1994) and walking around in a bunch of burned deadfall is a very unpleasant hazard. Fires do make for some lovely wildflowers, however.


I do remember that traveling through some of the burn areas near Pingree was quite challenging due to the deadfall. Based on your post, I'm assuming that you were up there with the CSU class? If so, did you guys do any kind of study on a more recent fire that would have happened there in about August of 2008? I hiked up to Emmaline Lake around that time, and I know a fire was burning in the vicinity as we came out of the wilderness (we saw smoke over a ridge, and wildland fire crews were passing us on the hike out). Never did hear how that fire turned out, and haven't been back to the area since, but figured you might know!

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Re: Grayrock group -- torched

Postby Johnson » Sat May 19, 2012 9:28 am

Looked like they had a handle on the fire yesterday and the rain and cooler temps we have today should let them wrap it up! Thankful for those who do the dangerous work of battling these things.
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Re: Grayrock group -- torched

Postby Jim Davies » Sat May 19, 2012 11:14 am

Camp stoves were not (and still aren't) forbidden by the current fire restrictions in Larimer County. I think a fine is appropriate, but ruining this guy's life over it is not.
http://www.larimer.org/emergency/emergency_detail.cfm?nam_id=78
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Re: Grayrock group -- torched

Postby George James » Wed May 23, 2012 4:25 pm

Barry wrote:Looked like they had a handle on the fire yesterday and the rain and cooler temps we have today should let them wrap it up! Thankful for those who do the dangerous work of battling these things.

Cheers to that. Fully contained now. Three cheers for the firefighters.

Jim wrote:I think a fine is appropriate, but ruining this guy's life over it is not.

Yeah wow, how awful must it be to be that guy right now. Can't help but feel a little bad for him, I'd imagine I'd be fraught with guilt over the whole thing.

Sounds like they are really trying to get after it as far as the trail restoration and area rehabilitation is concerned, which is nice.

Kind of lookin forward to getting up there and seeing what it looks like now. Anybody wanna scamper up the weenie route with me once the trails are opened back up?
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