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no refunds...too bad for you

Discussion area for peaks outside of the USA.
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no refunds...too bad for you

Postby davebks » Thu May 10, 2012 11:28 am

So HIMEX isn't going to refund any money back to the Everest climbers. Thoughts on that? You knew the risks and are out of luck? or did they pull the plug way too soon?
I have been on a trip that I felt deserved some money back but never got a dime. Just an offer for a discount on a future trip. I'd still be pissed about it but sometimes you have to let things go I guess. In this case though..hmmm........ not sure.
I was surprised he pulled the plug so soon.
Is there a responsibility for these guide companies charging SO much to at least be considerate of the fact? Or keep a fine line policy??

http://www.explorersweb.com/offsite/?source=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theactivetimes.com%2Fno-refunds-everest-climbers&lang=en
"The disappointed climbers whose aspirations of summitting Everest this season were recently thwarted, recently got another dose of bad news: There will be no refunds of their approximately $55,000 investment. The guide company Himalayan Experience (HIMEX) announced the decision on its website yesterday.

This season has been particularly chaotic for climbers, having seen some of the worst conditions ever recorded on Everest, not to mention last week's airlift evacuation of photographer Corey Richards.

HIMEX expedition leader Russell Brice, who made the decision to pull his climbers and support team from the mountain, says most of the money already has been spent on logistics and prep, calling this spring the most dangerous he has ever seen on Everest. Brice is already planning next year's expedition, and exploring a possible new route."

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Re: no refunds...too bad for you

Postby JB99 » Thu May 10, 2012 11:39 am

Interesting. Sounds like a familiar story...
unusually warm and dry weather on Everest has led to unstable conditions across the mountain


If you're going with a guide you give up your decision-making, so I guess you'd have to trust Brice to make the call. I don't know enough about other summits this year and what the conditions are really like to agree or disagree with the call personally. I'd be interested in hearing Alan Arnette's opinion - he usually has a good idea of the happenings there.

That all said it would be hard to spend that much time and money and not even get a chance at the summit.
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Re: no refunds...too bad for you

Postby plantmandan » Thu May 10, 2012 11:42 am

I really don't have a problem with Brice's decision, however drastic it appears to be. He has been a guide on Everest for a long time and knows the mountain well. The ultimate duty of a guide is to bring home their clients alive. I am assuming each client read over the contract before forking over their time and money. Nobody made them sign up for the trip.

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Re: no refunds...too bad for you

Postby gdthomas » Thu May 10, 2012 12:07 pm

No guide is going to guarantee a summit and no guide is going to guarantee a refund. So if you go with a guide you run the risk of not summiting and not getting some or all of your money back.

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Re: no refunds...too bad for you

Postby jbchalk » Thu May 10, 2012 12:21 pm

This is part of the risk of going with a commercially guided outfit such as HIMEX. Clients know this going into it. They pay the expedition leader to make the right decisions based on imperfect information. Russel has been on Everest for 20+ years and knows that mountain like the back of his hand. I've spent some time with him at EBC and he a tremendous guy whose top priority is the safety of his outfit, sherpas, & clients. When our logistical expedition operator, Henry Todd, had to be evacuated from EBC during our summit push due to an ear infection, Russell took over and gave us invaluable info and weather forecasts while we were up on the South Col. In this way, he contributed to our success. While disappointed for sure, his clients ought to respect his decision and get on with their lives considering the possibility of joining him next year at a discounted price.

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Re: no refunds...too bad for you

Postby timf » Thu May 10, 2012 2:01 pm

Just a question out of curiosity; how would services closer to home like RMI handle the situation on a lower cost trip like Rainier? Would they offer people the option to spend another day or 2 to wait for weather to clear, send you packing, or a coupon/voucher toward the next trip?

In theory if we're talking about safety, the policy may be generally consistent (understanding different companies), so the amount of money be it $970 versus $55000 couldn't possibly play a factor. Morals and ethics are morals and ethics..... right?

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Re: no refunds...too bad for you

Postby davebks » Thu May 10, 2012 2:06 pm

Well, I certainly can't speak for any company but I had an experience in s america with a guide company that was not positive at all. The guide made a terrible decision based on an experience that rattled him from the year before, then his sub-guide made a call against the head guide and one of our party got to summit while we all waited around based on the head guides decision. I will spare you the details but it wasn't an Everest level of payment I made for the trip and they didn't bend at all. They fired the subguide and reprimanded the head guide and offered me a discount on another trip.
So I am guessing you are just out of luck if that happens, even locally.
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Re: no refunds...too bad for you

Postby TravelingMatt » Thu May 10, 2012 2:10 pm

Does that cost include the permit fee from the Nepalese government? If so, the outfitter at least has a duty to find other parties who are willing to use and pay for it, and refund this this cost back to the original climbers.

We're right in the peak window now, but I understand there are usually people hanging around Nepal this time of year looking for a permit to go onto.
So pleas'd at first the towering Alps we try,
Mount o'er the vales, and seem to tread the sky,
Th' increasing prospects tire our wand'ring eyes,
Hills peep o'er hills, and Alps on Alps arise!
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Re: no refunds...too bad for you

Postby Scott P » Thu May 10, 2012 3:25 pm

Does that cost include the permit fee from the Nepalese government? If so, the outfitter at least has a duty to find other parties who are willing to use and pay for it, and refund this this cost back to the original climbers.

We're right in the peak window now, but I understand there are usually people hanging around Nepal this time of year looking for a permit to go onto.


Not sure what you mean. :?: If you attempt Everest you have to pay for the permit whether or not you summit. If you don't summit you can't give your permit to someone else.
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Re: no refunds...too bad for you

Postby davebks » Thu May 10, 2012 3:33 pm

i think that's what he means. I don't think guide companies can sell off permits if they don't summit but I could be wrong.
I thought I saw a big sign at the EBC that said, "All summit attempts are non-transferable" :lol:
Last edited by davebks on Thu May 10, 2012 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: no refunds...too bad for you

Postby TravelingMatt » Thu May 10, 2012 3:34 pm

Scott P wrote:If you don't summit you can't give your permit to someone else.


I thought there were group permits where you could.
So pleas'd at first the towering Alps we try,
Mount o'er the vales, and seem to tread the sky,
Th' increasing prospects tire our wand'ring eyes,
Hills peep o'er hills, and Alps on Alps arise!
-- Alexander Pope

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Re: no refunds...too bad for you

Postby jbchalk » Thu May 10, 2012 3:41 pm

I dont believe you can just give/sell your permit to someone else. I believe all group permits have all the individuals' names on them...at least ours did. Sort of like you just cannot give your airplane ticket (in your name and under your reservation) to someone else nowadays.

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