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Bross Solution: New Summit?

Colorado 14er peak questions and conditions should be posted here. 14er Trip Reports

Good Idea (see first post, below)?

Yes
115
85%
No
21
15%
 
Total votes : 136
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Re: Bross Solution: New Summit?

Postby BillMiddlebrook » Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:49 pm

I'm waiting to hear back from Steve B. at the CMC regarding how much progress was actually made on the ownership search.
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Re: Bross Solution: New Summit?

Postby ChrisRoberts » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:15 pm

KentonB wrote: I often use county assessor web sites to track down land owners for local climbs I do.


Would you mind posting the link to this site, something like that could be of great value to me(and others!)
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Read all about my schemes and adventuring at NoCo Chris Latest TR: Kansas City for the summer

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Re: Bross Solution: New Summit?

Postby Andymcp1 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:20 pm

I honestly think this is a great idea. Given the fact I bet a large majority of those who dont already know and are choosing to do Bross for they will not know that their public summit is not the true summit. I mean if there is a culebra ridge style giant in your face carin on the public summit most people would end up their regardless of height more for a photo opp. Just my 2 cents

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Re: Bross Solution: New Summit?

Postby KentonB » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:23 pm

ChrisRoberts wrote:
KentonB wrote: I often use county assessor web sites to track down land owners for local climbs I do.


Would you mind posting the link to this site, something like that could be of great value to me(and others!)

Chris, the "local county" for me is El Paso... Here's a link. I have several other Colorado County Assessor map sites too (let me know if you're looking for something specific).

Park County doesn't have a map on the assessor's site, but it does have a parcel search. Since Bross is in Township 8, Range 78, and Section 21, you can search for all landowners in that section. I come up with a list of 34 landowners (all mining claims... surprise surprise!). At least we now have it narrowed down to 34! LOL

Bill, it it helps, I can send you the link I used for the Park county search and the search criteria... Although I imagine the CMC already has this information.

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Re: Bross Solution: New Summit?

Postby shaunster_co » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:41 pm

ChrisRoberts wrote:Would you mind posting the link to this site, something like that could be of great value to me(and others!)


If you are looking for county assessor maps the search term is "GIS" and the Colorado county. Not all of the counties have them, but most do. It will generally show public & private parcels, and ownership. For the sake of illustration, the Boulder County GIS [http://maps.bouldercounty.org/boco/emapping/] shows all of the patented mining claims, which to give an idea; look as if some dropped a pile of pixie sticks on to a map. Park & Summit counties have many more mining claims, so I can only imagine the density in those places.

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Re: Bross Solution: New Summit?

Postby ChrisRoberts » Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:59 pm

Awesome, found what I needed. Thanks guys!
Some rise, some fall, some climb to get to terrapin
Read all about my schemes and adventuring at NoCo Chris Latest TR: Kansas City for the summer

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Re: Bross Solution: New Summit?

Postby MechE » Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:01 pm

Bill,
Thanks for pursuing this.

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Re: Bross Solution: New Summit?

Postby Tortoise1 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:46 pm

People could do 25 jumping jacks as penance for forgoing the elevation gain.

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Re: Bross Solution: New Summit?

Postby jeremy27 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:21 am

The summit of Bross is in T8S, R78W, Section 21 – likely in the NE4SE4 or SE4SE4 – hard to tell without something better than Geocommunicator (a federal website). Running a search (T08 R78 S21 SE4) for the entire SE4 on the Park County Assessor’s website, http://www.parkco.org/search2.asp, there appears to be twenty-three taxable parcels in the SE4. Now this is an overly inclusive list because the summit is likely in the NE4 of the SE4 and the website doesn’t let you narrow your search to quarter-quarter sections. From this list of twenty-three taxable parcels there are only eight individuals/entities paying taxes on the various parcels. Someone would just need to talk to these eight individuals/entities to gain permission to the summit as they either own these interests of record themselves or they are paying taxes on behalf of the true owner and can get you in touch with them. As this is publically available information, below is the list:


SOBBA CLARENCE AND SARGENT JAMES
731 S PINECREST
WICHITA, KS 67218

EARTH ENERGY RESOURCES LLC
6665 S JAY DR
LITTLETON, CO 80123

FLAKS LESLEY C
1610 HILL CIR
COLORADO SPRINGS, CO 80904

SCOTT JUDSON DUNCAN
1402 AUBURN WY N
#222
AUBURN, WA 98002

WELLS LARRY D
620 GLOVER PL
CHULA VISTA, CA 92010

LARSEN AMY JOAN
1007 ALMANOR LN
LAFAYETTE, CA 94549

REIBER MAURICE O
5051 W GEDDES CIR
LITTLETON, CO 80128

LEVY TONA M
300 ROSE GARDEN CIR
APT J. Z
SHRV, LA 71115

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Re: Bross Solution: New Summit?

Postby coloradokevin » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:17 am

jeremy27 wrote: Someone would just need to talk to these eight individuals/entities to gain permission to the summit as they either own these interests of record themselves or they are paying taxes on behalf of the true owner and can get you in touch with them. As this is publically available information, below is the list:





Or, as I already pointed out, you wouldn't need to contact any of them because of the fact that Colorado law does not require you to have permission to cross open vacant land that hasn't been posted by its owner (assuming the owner hasn't told you that you can't be there).

Still, thank you for uncovering that information. It could be quite handy to have those names available in the event that an atv-riding local decides to tell me that I'm not allowed up there ("oh, I'm sorry... so, which landowner do you represent?")!


Here's part of the section of law I'm referring to:

Colorado Revised Statutes wrote:...Except as is otherwise provided in section 33-6-116 (1), C.R.S., a person who enters or remains upon unimproved and apparently unused land that is neither fenced nor otherwise enclosed in a manner designed to exclude intruders does so with license and privilege unless notice against trespass is personally communicated to the person by the owner of the land or some other authorized person or unless notice forbidding entry is given by posting with signs at intervals of not more than four hundred forty yards or, if there is a readily identifiable entrance to the land, by posting with signs at such entrance to the private land or the forbidden part of the land.



Also, section 33-6-116(1) simply states that you don't have the right to hunt or fish on such land without permission (I doubt that is a concern to many of us on the summit of Bross):

CRS wrote:"It is unlawful for any person to enter upon privately owned land or lands under the control of the state board of land commissioners to hunt or take any wildlife by hunting, trapping, or fishing without first obtaining permission from the owner or person in possession of such land."
Last edited by coloradokevin on Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Bross Solution: New Summit?

Postby Carl » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:24 am

coloradokevin wrote:Except as is otherwise provided in section 33-6-116 (1), C.R.S., a person who enters or remains upon unimproved and apparently unused land that is neither fenced nor otherwise enclosed in a manner designed to exclude intruders does so with license and privilege unless notice against trespass is personally communicated to the person by the owner of the land or some other authorized person or unless notice forbidding entry is given by posting with signs at intervals of not more than four hundred forty yards or, if there is a readily identifiable entrance to the land, by posting with signs at such entrance to the private land or the forbidden part of the land.


The only sign in that area (last time I checked) was posted by the USFS, merely stating that the summit of Mt. Bross is closed. That agency is not the land owner, they apparently aren't acting as an agent of the landowner(s) who haven't been found, and I doubt their signs meet that posting requirement even if they were the agent of the landowners (who, apparently, are still missing in action). Moreover, if the person on the ATV that confronted hikers up there does actually own that land, he would have to post the land or continue to sit up there and tell people to leave.


Interesting bit of information Kevin. Thanks!

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Re: Bross Solution: New Summit?

Postby jeremy27 » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:41 am

The CRS section you quoted may apply if you were charged with criminal trespass, it may not insulate you from civil liability.

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