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Sat Mar 3 - Sangre 13er 5-Pack (FKA Princeton SW Ridge)

Need a climbing partner? Trying to form a hiking group for an outing?
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Re: Sat Mar 3 - Sangre 13er 5-Pack (FKA Princeton SW Ridge)

Postby Brian Thomas » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:59 am

AndYouSeeMe wrote:So, whose all in?

Myself and Matt Lemke +1 are just going for Spread Eagle, Cloud, and Rito Alto. Respectfully decline to participate in your five peak "death march" sirs :-"
"I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them" - Bob Dylan

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Re: Sat Mar 3 - Sangre 13er 5-Pack (FKA Princeton SW Ridge)

Postby geojed » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:13 am

astrobassman wrote:I might be able to make this, but would have to do it as a day trip from Denver. The weather looks a bit too crappy to stay closer to home. What time is everyone starting from Gibson Creek TH? Anyone else in a similar situation that wants to carpool?


We are meeting at the Ken Caryl P-n-R at 2AM for a TH start at 5AM. The plan is to do it as a day trip. If you could come and could drive that would be great as my Pathfinder is getting pretty full. :shock:
• It's by getting away from life that we can see it most clearly... It's by depriving ourselves of the myriad of everyday experiences that we renew our appreciation for them...I've learned from my experiences in the mountains that I love life. — Dave Johnston
• Mountains are not climbed merely to reach a geographical location — but as personal and spiritual challenges to the participants. — David Stein
• The best climber in the world is the one who’s having the most fun.— Alex Lowe
• Why do I climb the mountain? Because I'm in love! — The Captain

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Re: Sat Mar 3 - Sangre 13er 5-Pack (FKA Princeton SW Ridge)

Postby Matt Lemke » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:31 am

Today...5-9 inches
Tomorrow...sunny and blustery

Bring on the trailbreaking!
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Re: Sat Mar 3 - Sangre 13er 5-Pack (FKA Princeton SW Ridge)

Postby aaronmojica » Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:28 am

I'm in. I traced the proposed route on my topos, the 5er seems ambitious, may join the less insane group. I'll be coming up 69 from the South if anyone along that route needs a ride. Gibson Creek 5am! (I have extra snowshoes)

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Re: Sat Mar 3 - Sangre 13er 5-Pack (FKA Princeton SW Ridge)

Postby Marmot72 » Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:32 pm

I was looking forward to a TR on this...did you guys make it?
I have phenomenal route-finding abilities. Specifically, I have an uncanny knack for seeking the path of most resistance.

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Re: Sat Mar 3 - Sangre 13er 5-Pack (FKA Princeton SW Ridge)

Postby Matt Lemke » Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:36 pm

We just made Spread Eagle except for Abe who also made Cloud.
Winds were ungodly :(
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The Pacific Coast to the Great Plains = My Playground
"Take risks not to escape life, but to prevent life from escaping"
"When you come to face what you fear, let the creator guide you"

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Re: Sat Mar 3 - Sangre 13er 5-Pack (FKA Princeton SW Ridge)

Postby Upstate Hiker » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:55 am

Hi All,

I wasn't on this trip but after reading the blog post that I've included below I am very disappointed in this group. I know I have friends that I will upset by saying this, but what the f#ck were you guys thinking! I am so upset that you would take out a noob who was totally unprepared -- both gearwise and with zero knowledge of winter mountaineering. Someone should have checked to make sure that everyone in the group was prepared and could complete the summit safely. I'm sorry Sarah, but you should not have been allowed to leave the trailhead. Sarah had a personal responsibility to be more prepared, but the more experienced members of the trip are also accountable. I mean for Christ sake, she was eating snow! When I was a noob, more experienced members of this community looked out for me and taught me a lot of what I know. That is part of what I love about this forum. What a major let down! Thank you, Brian, for once again being awesome. I will always be glad to be your partner and friend.

http://sarahstanleyinspired.com/2012/03/06/winter-mountaineering-adventure-recap-more-than-just-endurance/

Re: Sat Mar 3 - Sangre 13er 5-Pack (FKA Princeton SW Ridge)

Postby FireOnTheMountain » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:25 am

This is such a touchy subject and I have seen it come up on the forum but for the first time I was part of it. Thats the problem with these huge group gatherings and why I stay away from them.

What I learned from this trip is that it is wise to find out who is not very experienced and make sure they are well equipped for the endeavor. Sarah's sheer badassness got her down safely although she still did not come out unscathed. Also, sorry to say, but getting lost did not help her and Brian out either.

The biggest thing I can take away from this trip is to make sure everyone is prepared. It does somewhat fall on the organizer to make sure that people know what they are getting into. After the fact, when I saw the shoes Sarah was wearing and the gloves she had on I felt horrible.

I don't know what else to say without stepping on people's toes and looking like an ass but the truth of the matter is that Sarah was ill-equipped for the trip (and she admitted that afterwards also). That could be my fault for instance for not looking down at her shoes but being that it was early morning and cold I did not think to check on my fellow climber's preparedness and therein lies my lesson.
Everyday is a G r A t E f U L Day here in the CO

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Re: Sat Mar 3 - Sangre 13er 5-Pack (FKA Princeton SW Ridge)

Postby ultragirl » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:13 am

First time posting on here, but since this thread is about me, I figured I had better chime in :D

First, I want to say that I take full responsibility for my actions. I don't expect anyone to hold my hand. I don't blame anyone but myself.

Second, if you read what my recap, you will know that I said that having endurance means nothing if you don't have the right gear [for a winter climb]. Looking back, this is probably my biggest mistake. I'm pretty good at athletic endurance events, and because of that think I can do anything. But that doesn't mean I can conquer a winter summit without the right gear. Toughness doesn't mean much when you can't feel your feet/toes/fingers :) (But I am glad I was tough/determined because I wasn't if I would've made it back if I hadn't been.)

Third, I want to thank Brian for sticking with me. And for giving me his gloves to get back down. My fingers would probably be in worse shape if it wasn't for his kindness.

Fourth, I will winter climb again- BUT with the proper gear. I understand what TO wear and what NOT to wear :) I hope I'll have some people that will still want to join me :)

Fifth, I am recovering/healing the best I can. I had acupuncture yesterday and that helped. Feeling is slowly coming back.

Lastly, although it was a pretty brutal day for me, I am thankful for the opportunity to experience everything I did. I have new appreciation for the sport. I realized that it all comes down to what seems like simple things (proper gloves, gators, boots) but that can make the difference between life and death. Kind of like life.

If anyone has questions, please contact me directly!

peace, sweat, love: life
Sarah

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Re: Sat Mar 3 - Sangre 13er 5-Pack (FKA Princeton SW Ridge)

Postby madbuck » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:41 am

ultragirl wrote:If you don't have the right gear [for a winter climb]. Looking back, this is probably my biggest mistake. I'm pretty good at athletic endurance events, and because of that think I can do anything.


I don't want to sound too confrontational -- it'd be better to chat in person over a beer or something.
But I don't think it's just "the right gear" and "endurance."

Endurance events are mostly about maximizing probability of success in a controlled environment. The "success" metric in backcountry endeavors is mitigating risk. This is even more true in groups, where mitigating risk is important for everyone's safety. Calling SAR is thankfully sometimes an option, but increases their risk as well and would also represent a failure in execution if it occurred in a preventable situation.
Having a map, studying it ahead of time, and knowing the route you're on is a start. So is basic snow science and being familiar with the snowpack. Hiking safely off-trail is another skill that is different than ultrarunning. Then, on top of that, is being prepared gear-wise for the climb and the environment.

This all comes with experience.

I think it's important to mention because the real lesson here is experience. With warmer hands, feet, and non-frozen water -- what about the next 4 peaks? What about cornices, making decisions about glissading, making route adjustments based on snow and possibly changing weather?

Again, this will all come with experience -- but the first step is to be humble and acknowledge one's limitations. Best of luck in future endeavors!

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Re: Sat Mar 3 - Sangre 13er 5-Pack (FKA Princeton SW Ridge)

Postby Monster5 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:55 am

Sounds like a lesson was learned and responsibility taken where it is due - with the hiker. No need to armchair mountaineer here and raise the flags (multiple ones, for that matter).

It isn't like Geojed failed to inform everybody on the nature of the hike in his weekly forum assault. Nor is it feasible in a group setting to inspect and pass judgement on every body at the TH. It isn't up to other hikers (on a non-technical route) to babysit each other. If somebody feels they may not be prepared, it is their personal responsibility to inform others and get prepared.

Congrats on the tenacity and experience, Sarah.
"The road to alpine climbing is pocked and poorly marked, ending at an unexpectedly closed gate 5 miles from the trailhead." - MP user Beckerich

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Re: Sat Mar 3 - Sangre 13er 5-Pack (FKA Princeton SW Ridge)

Postby Upstate Hiker » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:59 am

@ Sarah.... I'm glad you are recovering and that Brian was there for you.

In all honestly, mountaineering is a specialized sport requiring more than just the correct gear. There is an unbelievable amount of knowledge and skill that goes into backcountry sports; particularly winter summits. I am humbled by how little I know regardless of how much time I devote to learning about this sport. Endurance and athleticism is not enough. I often opt out of trips that I don't have the skill level to complete and have turned back from summit attempts before things became dangerous. A lot of the forum members are talented bikers and/or runners, and they would all acknowledge that while this helps; it is not everything. Not many people will have the cojones to say this, but equating our sport to nothing more than endurance and gear is a tad bit insulting. Before your next winter attempt, please do some reading and talk to more experienced individuals. Snow travel, winter survival, avy training, orienteering and wilderness first aid are areas you should at least have some knowledge in. Relying on others instead of doing your homework is not cool, but I appreciate your acknowledgment that you made some poor choices. At minimum, get a copy of Freedom of the Hills and read it cover to cover. REI also does a great job at offering free education to the public.

I hope you continue your pursue our beautiful mountains and feel free to PM me whenever you need some help. I don't want to be discouraging -- I'd just like to hear your next trip report say that you had fun and were safe. We need more girls out there getting it!

Good luck!

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