Forum
Buying gear? Please use these links to help 14ers.com:

More info...

Other ways to help...

Access to the entire Culebra range

Colorado 14ers access and fee issues only, please
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:09 am

Access to the entire Culebra range

Postby Lenteman » Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:53 am

Hello all,

Let me introduce myself. My name is Len Beké and I'm a long distance hiker from Belgium. Previously I have walked the length of the Pyrenees (900km) and the Picos de Europa (300km) both in Spain. Currently I am planning a hike that follows the Sangre de Cristo Mountains from Pecos, NM, to Poncha Springs Colorado.

As many of you will know there is a huge swathe of privately owned land between Carson NF and Rio Grande/San Isabel NF. My plan is to enter this area at Latir Lakes east of Latir Peak and leave it at Lake Como Road. I know Big Costilla in NM is off limits and that the Cielo Vista Ranch owns the land west of the range crest from Trinchera Peak south to Red Mountain and perhaps further. The owners of that ranch appear to allow visitors for a fee, but apparently only from one entry point. I have no knowledge of who owns the eastern slopes of these mountains; nor who owns the land north of the FS tract around Wahatoya/Spanish Peaks.

I have included a Topo! file with my proposed route. If anyone can tell me which land owners I would need to contact for this project and maybe how best to approach them, that would be a great help.

Thank you,
Len

PS It appears I can only attach this jpeg and not the actual Topo! file, anyone know how I can bypass this?
Attachments
Private land problem area.JPG
Private land problem area.JPG (249.6 KiB) Viewed 2768 times

User avatar
Posts: 3091
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2006 5:04 pm
Location: Tabernash, CO

Re: Access to the entire Culebra range

Postby MtHurd » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:22 am

Why do you want to start at Latir Lakes? That requires a 4x4 to get up to the lakes and all you would be doing is hiking back down the 4x4 road the way you drove up. I'd recommend starting at Cabresto Lake on the west side of the Latirs. Hike up to Hart Lake, ascend Latir Mesa and then descend down to the Latir Lakes. If you don't want to park at Cabresto Lake, park in the Valley Vidal at the trailhead for Little Costilla. It looks like your route after that goes over Little Costilla, which is not on private land. After that I couldn't tell you who owns the land between Little Costilla and Purgatoire Peak. Then you've got Red Mountain and Culebra, I would imagine you could pay the $100 to get through that area. After that I don't know who owns the land but it becomes public at Cuatro Peak.

I have heard that the land owner on the east side of Culebra doesn't give anyone permission to cross his land, so getting permission may be difficult for all of the landowners. U.S. landowners probably aren't as nice as those in Europe.

One other note, it will cost you at least $15 to drive up to Latir Lakes (that's what I payed years ago, so it may be more by now). Rio Costilla Cattle Association owns the land and they have a pay box at the start of the road. If you hike in from Cabresto Lake, you will only have to pay if run into someone from the Association on your hike down the road. If you do, then you just tell them that your plan was to pay at the bottom when you leave their land.

User avatar
Posts: 436
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:20 pm
Location: Land of Fruits and Nuts

Re: Access to the entire Culebra range

Postby painless4u2 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:31 am

I have heard that the land owner on the east side of Culebra doesn't give anyone permission to cross his land, so getting permission may be difficult for all of the landowners. U.S. landowners probably aren't as nice as those in Europe.


I've heard this as well, and they're not too happy about trespassers on their land. One route we are considering that you might want to look at is access the ridge from the summit of Mt. Maxwell, which is on public land, via a 4wd road from Purgatoire Campground, near North Lake. Once on the summit (not too far from the terminus of the road), simply hike south along the ridge toward Culebra, about 12 miles. You'll still be on private land for most of the route, of course, but staying on the ridge should keep you out of trouble. (SInce many other 14er summits are actually on private property, i.e. Blanca, Lindsey, Bross, Little Bear, etc., there is precedence.) Good luck!
In their hearts humans plan their course, but the Lord establishes their steps. Proverbs 16:9

Bad decisions often make good stories.

"Well, that didn't go as expected." - Brett Maune

Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:09 am

Re: Access to the entire Culebra range

Postby Lenteman » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:32 am

I should have been clear about this. I will not have a car on this trip. I want to visit the Latir Peaks Wilderness so that's why this section starts at the Latir Lakes.

User avatar
Posts: 3091
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2006 5:04 pm
Location: Tabernash, CO

Re: Access to the entire Culebra range

Postby MtHurd » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:40 am

Ahhh ok, you will enter the area at Latir Lakes after hiking from Pecos, NM.

What time of year are you planning on doing this?

My best answer for finding out who owns all the land would be to contact Ken Nolan.

http://www.fourteenerworld.com/ClimbersCorner/html/KenNolanInterview.htm

User avatar
Posts: 1356
Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 7:43 pm
Location: Estes Park

Re: Access to the entire Culebra range

Postby Kiefer » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:14 am

Holy crap! I LOVE this thread! Thank you SO MUCH Barry and painless4u2.
I owe the two of you a 6-pack each! :)

Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:30 pm
Location: Routt County

Re: Access to the entire Culebra range

Postby NYRyan » Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:30 pm

I don't have anything to contribute, except encouragement. I really hope you can pull this off. Good luck.
Thank you Bill M for this great site.

User avatar
Posts: 221
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:33 pm
Location: wheat ridge

Re: Access to the entire Culebra range

Postby zoomie83 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:59 pm

I certainly don't condone trespassing and I'm not sure if this is your intended route but theirs goes north from Culebra Peak, or more accurately from Red Mountain.
Quite impressive.


http://www.themountaininstitute.com/reports/colorado/culebra.html

User avatar
Posts: 367
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:37 pm
Location: Boulder

Re: Access to the entire Culebra range

Postby milan » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:28 pm

Thanks for this post, I am actually also worried about the private owners in the area and this brings some information. Except of Culebra 100 $ access, not much info is easy to find.

Barry Raven wrote:I have heard that the land owner on the east side of Culebra doesn't give anyone permission to cross his land, so getting permission may be difficult for all of the landowners. U.S. landowners probably aren't as nice as those in Europe.


Actually, European land owners are not necessarily nicer than those in the USA but continental European law is based on old Roman law and that legislature did not see anything wrong about trespassing, they knew it is actually benefitial for the country if large chunks of land are not completely blocked by their owners. Since then, most (maybe all) countries in Europe have laws that guarantee any hiker right to hike through large privately owned pieces of land such as mountains, forests, meadows etc. Most times, we even can pick up mushrooms, berries etc. there. Completely different than English law :).

Posts: 123
Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 10:18 pm

Re: Access to the entire Culebra range

Postby D8S » Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:43 pm

In the US, property ownership is registered with the counties and is public information. Without looking it up (I don't have enough time) I believe the Colorado section is in Costilla county.

With a little research you should be able to find the owners and their contact information. I would suggest contacting them and explaining your request.

I wish you a wonderful trip.

User avatar
Posts: 7281
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:23 pm
Location: Colorado Springs

Re: Access to the entire Culebra range

Postby Jim Davies » Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:13 pm

A big chunk of that area is the Trinchera Ranch, which is owned by gazillionaire hedge fund baron Louis Bacon.
http://origin.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_7577768
I think that property extends all the way from the Cielo Vista ranch (which included Culebra) to highway 160; I'm not sure about the property north of 160 to the Blanca-Little Bear ridge, but it might be part of the ranch also.
Some people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths. -- Steven Wright

Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:09 am

Re: Access to the entire Culebra range

Postby Lenteman » Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:58 pm

Thanks for the encouragement everybody!

Barry Raven wrote:I have heard that the land owner on the east side of Culebra doesn't give anyone permission to cross his land, so getting permission may be difficult for all of the landowners. U.S. landowners probably aren't as nice as those in Europe.



That's too bad about the east side, the blue and yellow lines on my map were bad weather alternatives to the ridge run between Whiskey Pass and Trinchera Peak. I guess that makes waiting out the bad weather the only alternative.

Barry Raven wrote: One other note, it will cost you at least $15 to drive up to Latir Lakes (that's what I payed years ago, so it may be more by now). Rio Costilla Cattle Association owns the land and they have a pay box at the start of the road. If you hike in from Cabresto Lake, you will only have to pay if run into someone from the Association on your hike down the road. If you do, then you just tell them that your plan was to pay at the bottom when you leave their land.


From the Rio Costilla website: http://www.riocostillapark.com/Camping-Fishing.html
Entrance and/or Overnight camping:
$20.00 per vehicle per day
Fishing Streams and/or Lakes
$7.00 per person per day

Since I don't have a vehicle I won't be charged. No information on how far north that particular property goes though. My guess is to the state line but there's no telling.

Barry Raven wrote:What time of year are you planning on doing this?

My best answer for finding out who owns all the land would be to contact Ken Nolan.


I hope to do this trip starting mid June and ending late July 2013. That Ken Nolan sounds like a very knowledgeable person, does he participate on this forum?

Jim Davies wrote:A big chunk of that area is the Trinchera Ranch, which is owned by gazillionaire hedge fund baron Louis Bacon.
http://origin.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_7577768
I think that property extends all the way from the Cielo Vista ranch (which included Culebra) to highway 160; I'm not sure about the property north of 160 to the Blanca-Little Bear ridge, but it might be part of the ranch also.


Interesting, I can't make out much from the miniature map though. My plan on the northern edge of this section is to enter private land again north of Raspberry Mountain at a place called McCarty Park then follow a dirt road along West Indian Creek and the La Veta-Fort Garland railroad into Fort Garland. From Fort Garland I have a terribly unexciting roadwalk until I can enter the Rio Grande National Forest. The map in this link appears to be telling me that the Trinchera Ranch is further south than my proposed route.
http://www.slvdrg.org/files/VIII_County_Input_Costilla.pdf

Two more questions:
1) Does anyone have an e-mail address for mr Bobby Hill?
2) Does anyone know a better way to show maps on this forum?

Cheers

Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests