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EVIL Cameras

Camera equipment and technique for taking photos.
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Re: EVIL Cameras

Postby Kane » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:52 pm

I'll stick to my DSLR and deep assortment of lens available to me today.


Even if this stuff comes to fuition, where you actually have a choice of camera bodies and lens. By that time (years from now,) ask yourself the following; will I still be climbing mountains; will I care about taking pretty pictures as much as I do today; will I have the money to invest? If you're a "not sure" on the above questions, then buy a DLSR right now. You only have so many years to see what you see.

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Re: EVIL Cameras

Postby Dancesatmoonrise » Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:00 pm

Kane wrote:I'll stick to my DSLR and deep assortment of lens available to me today.


Even if this stuff comes to fuition, where you actually have a choice of camera bodies and lens. By that time (years from now,) ask yourself the following; will I still be climbing mountains; will I care about taking pretty pictures as much as I do today; will I have the money to invest? If you're a "not sure" on the above questions, then buy a DLSR right now. You only have so many years to see what you see.


Kane, I've long been a secret admirer of your images.

Tell me (if you happen back to this thread any time soon) what body and lenses are you shooting?

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Re: EVIL Cameras

Postby Jake0177 » Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:43 pm

I just got a GF1 for the summer. I used it extensively in Colorado, and never took out my Canon 40D. You can see my GF1 Colorado pictures at www.jakemumm.zenfolio.com. I absolutely love the GF1.

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Re: EVIL Cameras

Postby hatidua » Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:15 am

I'd be interested in viewing some files at 100% straight out of the camera of fairly contrasty situations. I guess it all depends on the end-users expectations but there's more to the equation than weight for me. There was a lot of fanfare made about the Canon G7/9/10/11 when they came out as well, but the image quality on those is pretty lousy when it comes right down to it.

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Re: EVIL Cameras

Postby climbing_rob » Thu Jun 17, 2010 1:25 pm

g wrote:I was reading reviews of the GF1 on Amazon and, while it sounds like a great camera, DSLRs still seem to have it beat in image quality.
Not sure why this would be true; sensor size is a huge aspect of image quality, and these sensors are nice and big, and the lenses for these seem to be top quality. The sensors are not as big as a full-frame DSLR, so maybe that's the comparison being made. Too busy/lazy to read the reviews right now, but Amazon may not be a great source of reviews. I recommend "dpreview", "luminouslandscape" or even, dare I suggest it: "kenrockwell" (very controversial, but his ideas seem to jive well with mine).

And those Canon g7/9/10/11 sensors are NOT big ones, hence the limited quality. Decent cameras though.

These new puppies sure look great from a quality per weight standpoint, thanks for the initial post! I'm excited about these cameras, we'll see if the price starts dropping.

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Re: EVIL Cameras

Postby climbing_rob » Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:45 pm

Here's what Ken Rockwell has to say about eh Olympus version of these, for what its worth, and again, he is controversial: (cut/paste from http://kenrockwell.com/olympus/e-p1.htm)

The Olympus E-P1 really does have the technical image quality of a DSLR, or better.

Sadly, the E-P1 also has the slower handling of a pocket camera with which it has more in common.

The E-P1 has a very small dedicated lens selection — just two lenses today — and has no built-in flash.

These three lines summarize 95% of this review, and knowing Olympus, many innovative lenses are coming. Given the right lenses, I'd love to take the Olympus E-P1 on a dedicated photo trip instead of heavy SLRs like the D700. (The real winner is the LEICA M9, which offers all the benefits of the E-P1 and is part of a complete system.)

The Olympus E-P1 gives the highest technical image quality of any digital camera that weighs this little. It's a joy to carry all day and night, and brings back clean, killer images. It also shoots in a professional 4:3 aspect ratio, not the bogus, too-short 3:2 ratio left over from 35mm film that still handicaps DSLRs.

The Olympus PEN E-P1 is a missing link between SLR cameras and point-and-shoot pocket cameras. It's a solid little thing that straps around your neck, a little smaller than a DSLR but too big to fit in a pocket. I find it easier to draw and fire from around my neck than to have to draw a compact from my pocket.

The E-P1 is an overgrown pocket camera that has a much larger sensor (quarter-frame (micro four-thirds) 17.3 x 12mm) and interchangeable lenses for great technical quality, however the processing innards are still only those of a pocket camera. The operational speed and overall capability aren't much better than any other pocket camera, which means that the E-P1 handles crummily (slowly) compared to a DSLR, even if the technical results are extraordinary.

Because the E-P1 has a sensor almost as big as an SLR and many times bigger than pocket cameras like the Nikon Coolpix, Canon Powershot, Casio Exilim and etc., it really does have technical quality at least as good as real DSLRs. I'm not kidding: I've tried it, and the Olympus E-P1 really does give the same sharp, clear, clean and smooth images I expect from my SLRs.

The E-P1's images are a huge technical step-up from the grainy, smudgy images we accept from micro-sensored compacts like the Coolpix, Powershot and similar. Yes, I love my Canon Powershots, and I wish they had big, fat sensors like the E-P1 so their images were as clean and pure as what I get out of the E-P1. These differences aren't visible at internet sizes, and are visible if you're looking closely in print or at 100% on your monitors. These differences are obvious on close inspection especially in daylight at normal ISOs, not just at high ISOs.

Images from the E-P1 are clean and real, with no smudging from noise reduction. Details and textures are rendered as they should be, without the sneaky smoothing-over that happens in the images made from digital pocket cameras, like Canons. Yes, the E-P1 runs rings around any Coolpix or Powershot, including the best like the Canon G series.

The E-P1 is marvelous for travel, nature and landscape photos, but not for sports or action. It is a bit better than most compacts for groups shots of people, but once people start walking around, you'll prefer a real DSLR to photograph them.

For clarification, a DSLR (digital single-lens reflex) uses a reflex mirror to view, focus and meter directly from the live three-dimensional image coming through the lens, while the E-P1 and pocket cameras have no such reflex viewing. On reflex cameras, the mirror flips out of the way during the moment of exposure, otherwise, you're looking directly through the live lens all the time via a prism on top of the camera.

The E-P1 and pocket cameras (Nikon Coolpix, Canon Powershot, Casio Exilim, etc) have no reflex mirrors, which makes them smaller, but also means that they have to do all their viewing, focus and metering only from the delayed, digitized two-dimensional signals created only after these cameras have processed the images that hit the sensor a fraction of a second ago.

If you're shooting landscapes, a fraction of a second doesn't matter, but if you're shooting action or moving people, the E-P1 and pocket cameras just can't cut it compared to real DSLRs like the Nikon D40 and Canon Digital Rebel T1i.

This means that the E-P1 is a fantastic choice for travel and general photography of anything that holds reasonably still, but is a poor choice for action or sports. The E-P1 work a little faster than most pocket cameras, but it's still awful compared to any real SLR.

For nature and landscape photos, the image engine of the E-P1 is so good that its technical image quality slightly outperforms some of the newest DSLRS with too many pixels, like the Canon Rebel T1i, because the E-P1 doesn't have to smear the image with noise reduction. The E-P1's images, when looked at 100%, look great, with no smearing of delicate textures as does the Rebel T1i SLR.

The gotcha is that the E-P1 still operates like a pocket camera, meaning that autofocus and metering isn't fast enough for sports or action. There is no viewfinder: you shoot holding the camera at arm's length and looking at the very slightly delayed image on the screen. You can slide a separate $100 passive optical viewfinder for only the 17mm lens into a hot shoe, but that doesn't count.

Even though the image sensor works great in low light, the E-P1's autofocus system doesn't work in dim light, and the metering system is inadequate for night photography. Indoors at night you take your chances with out-of-focus shots, and for tripod shots outdoors at night, you have to guess exposure.

The E-P1 has no AF assist light as does every other pocket camera, and since the E-P1 has no more AF sensitivity than a pocket camera, the E-P1 can go blind indoors below about LV 4 (1/30 at f/2.8 at ISO 1,600). When this happens, AF racks in and out and in and out, and never finds the subject.

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Re: EVIL Cameras

Postby Cody » Thu Jun 17, 2010 11:44 pm

The widest angle lens this camera has is a 28mm equivalent on 35mm full-frame. Not exactly the wide angle value that landscape photographers crave. Still, this is a step in the right direction with a large sensor on a non-SLR camera. The price is way too high though.

Of course, the great landscape photographers think 35mm frame size is too small and go straight for 4x5:
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/4x5.htm

"The 4 x 5 view camera remains unsurpassed for landscape photography"

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Re: EVIL Cameras

Postby ARY » Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:31 pm

There is another interesting EVIL - nx10. http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-NX10-Digital-prosumer-supported/dp/B003CY9RWS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1276885715&sr=8-1

However EVILs are as expensive as DSLR as by now. When they go down in price (which will only happen if competition picks up in this sector) it would be a good alternative to DSLRs. IMHO.

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