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James Peak Parking now is PAY PARKING

Colorado 13er questions, conditions, and other info should be posted here. Also includes topics related to 13ers.com. 13er Trip Reports
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Re: James Peak Parking now is PAY PARKING

Postby cftbq » Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:56 am

jisherw wrote:
cftbq wrote:A common misconception.


Considering how I used to be one of those individuals, I take offense to this statement.


No need to take offense. I refer to the population in general.

jisherw wrote:Not that it necessary pertains to this situation, but here is a quote that I would like to share with you:

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."
- Margaret Mead


And I certainly agree with Margaret Mead. However, the small group of thoughtful, committed people has never succeeded by playing by the rules handed to them by the self-empowered majority. Rather, they succeed only by breaking the "rules," and challenging the very basis of the majority's power. This is very different from trying to nit-pick away at the individual manifestations of the basic problem.

cftbq wrote:As to the "management plans" being "need[ed]," this, too, is only true under an over-bureaucratized vision of how things ought to be done.


jisherw wrote:I do not know your background, so I cannot determine if you are speaking from experience, knowledge, or just personal opinion, however, in my experience many of the current forest management plans are no longer relevant in the current situation. I will not go in the specifics why because I believe that I have already given a basic background on many of the important issues facing Colorado's forests. I am curious however, how did you come to this conclusion and what scientific facts do you use as support?


Call it personal opinion if you like. All the same, I am speaking from (decades of) personal experience. This is not a matter of science, but, rather, a matter of mode of approach. The science you reference may well all be quite valid. The transition to requiring the public to shell out monetarily is, however, not science, but politics.
I have been to the mountaintop, and I have seen the force
and the power that animates the universe. That may not
match up with your anthropomorphic or teleological idea of
what "god" is, but it's good enough for me.

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Re: James Peak Parking now is PAY PARKING

Postby Ish » Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:17 pm

cftbq wrote:The transition to requiring the public to shell out monetarily is, however, not science, but politics.


A very good point. I understand your apprehensions about the motives of our government, in many respects, I feel the same way. It just seems to me, however, that many people take for granted the things that the USFS does for us and our forests.
"Though my problems are meaningless, that don't make them go away..."
- Neil Young -

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Re: James Peak Parking now is PAY PARKING

Postby rleclair » Sat Apr 26, 2008 2:03 pm

Sorry jisherw, the "political big picture" cannot be attributed to my comments rather they were cftbq's. My point was in the "big picture" - scheme of things...
"Thousands of tired, nerve-shaken, over-civilized people are beginning to find out that going to the mountains is going home; that wilderness is a necessity; and that mountain parks and reservations are useful not only as fountains of timber and irrigating rivers, but as fountains of life..."
John Muir

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Re: James Peak Parking now is PAY PARKING

Postby Ish » Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:16 pm

rleclair wrote:Sorry jisherw, the "political big picture" cannot be attributed to my comments rather they were cftbq's.


Yea, I don't know how that happened. Strange.
"Though my problems are meaningless, that don't make them go away..."
- Neil Young -

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Re: James Peak Parking now is PAY PARKING

Postby glacierPaul » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:38 pm

Hello all,
When I listed expenses, I forgot a few other ones. Surveying the lot, I had a monumental survey done it was around $1400. Establishing the LLC- $120. Commercial Liability Insurance- $500 yearly, this is based on what the lot makes in revenue, so I will be audited yearly. Pay tickets-$200. And I think lastly, will be the cost of the earthwork and site development, I have friends who do this work, hope they need some plumbing work done!! Or I suppose I could offer a lifetime parking pass! Anyway, cftbq, I look forward to meeting you sometime! To all, I really do understand the "paying to park" thing being upsetting. My wife took the 3 1/2 year old to the St. Patrick's Day parade in downtown Denver, and had to pay $10 to park , there was'nt even a porta-potty on site. As far as us raising the fee, I can assure you(as you already know) if I was to charge more, it would probably start the next revelution!! Honestly, I feel the $5 is the max. anyone should have to pay to park. At least with the amenities I am providing. In fact, now that I think about it, the last concert we saw at the Pepsi center we had to pay $10 to park, plus the tickets for 2, drinks & food, t-shirt & hat , getting close to $200 just to see a show, depends on the band too I guess.
Thanks, Paul Johnson

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Re: James Peak Parking now is PAY PARKING

Postby glacierPaul » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:46 pm

Just noticed a mistake, revelation--revolution!! RIP R.N.M. and C.B

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Re: James Peak Parking now is PAY PARKING

Postby mcfadden » Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:58 am

Hi everyone,

There is more politics involved in this situation then many of you are aware of and it is a double edged sword. You see I have lived up there for three years and know Paul. I lived up there because I valued the outdoors and the freedom it brings. But during the summer, hundreds of people a day come to the glacier and many of them (not all or most) leave their trash and human waste everywhere. Not to mention the illegal fires made by ripping of branches from 200 year old bristlecone pines and beer bottles everywhere. The mountain is destroyed every year by ATVs making illegal trails above tree line and people trashing the tundra/lake area by not staying on the trail. Like all rules and fees, they are put in place because things get out of control. #-o

On the other side of the coin, Paul is in it to make money. He fails to mention that he desperately wants the Coors family to develop the old ski area on the mountain to make a snowboard terrain park. He also owns 5-6 other lots next to the glacier that he wants to develop into rental cabins. [-X I just have a problem when the Johnson Family shows up at water board meeting with Eclipse Snowpark gear on and then say there impartial!

If you want to hike Lames Peak and Park for free in the summer I would suggest going to Lock Lomond. It actually makes the hike shorter and there are beautiful lakes there. I know that area like the back of my hand so let me know if you have any questions.
:wink:

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Re: James Peak Parking now is PAY PARKING

Postby covfrrider » Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:04 am

Sounds like a reglar old Hatfield vs McCoy power struggle goin on up there an that there glasher... :guns: :twisted: :fight: :justkillme: :iluvbeer:

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Re: James Peak Parking now is PAY PARKING

Postby timstich » Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:23 am

I have yet to approach James Peak via the Rollins Pass Road, but it would make climbing the couloirs a lot easier that hiking up and then back down via St. Mary's. I have approached from the Mt. Bancroft side, which is really beautiful.
Last edited by timstich on Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: James Peak Parking now is PAY PARKING

Postby Presto » Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:25 am

I would suggest going to Lock Lomond


Just an FYI (since you know it like the back of your hand) ... it is Loch (not lock). :lol: After reading this entire thread, I can honestly say that you ALL should thank your lucky stars that you don't live in the state of Washington. EVERYTHING is pay. You have to have (and pay for) a sno-park pass just to park in the wintertime at most ALL trailheads. And, there's fees and permits in the summertime too (such is the way of one of the most "unionized" states in the country).
As if none of us have ever come back with a cool, quasi-epic story instead of being victim to tragic rockfall, a fatal stumble, a heart attack, an embolism, a lightning strike, a bear attack, collapsing cornice, some psycho with an axe, a falling tree, carbon monoxide, even falling asleep at the wheel getting to a mountain. If you can't accept the fact that sometimes "s**t happens", then you live with the illusion that your epic genius and profound wilderness intelligence has put you in total and complete control of yourself, your partners, and the mountain. How mystified you'll be when "s**t happens" to you! - FM

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Re: James Peak Parking now is PAY PARKING

Postby mcfadden » Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:40 am

Thanks presto....was typing a little too fast

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Re: James Peak Parking now is PAY PARKING

Postby Presto » Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:55 am

No problem, McFadden ... we all suffer from that affliction from time to time. :wink:
As if none of us have ever come back with a cool, quasi-epic story instead of being victim to tragic rockfall, a fatal stumble, a heart attack, an embolism, a lightning strike, a bear attack, collapsing cornice, some psycho with an axe, a falling tree, carbon monoxide, even falling asleep at the wheel getting to a mountain. If you can't accept the fact that sometimes "s**t happens", then you live with the illusion that your epic genius and profound wilderness intelligence has put you in total and complete control of yourself, your partners, and the mountain. How mystified you'll be when "s**t happens" to you! - FM

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